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[Music]

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find the more you think you know the

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where will we be

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[Music]

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the highest I chat show

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I wouldn't company

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this is the way higher side Chatters

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doing what we do from Sunny San Diego

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I'm Greg carlwood and is there any more

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persistent deception than the

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overarching idea subtly woven throughout

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reality that as individuals we are

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essentially powerless that to live

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outside of the cookie cutter Cradle to

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grave Cog in the Wheel company man life

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path is so risky and success so unlikely

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that we might as well just play it safe

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get your education accept your middle

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management position pay your mortgage

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eat your slop consume your nightly news

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and never bother to take the reins of

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your life because it could all just come

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crashing down we're told our mindsets

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make little difference in the matter

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first Universe yet a mountain of

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evidence from ESP studies and the power

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of prayer to a legacy of magical ritual

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and esoteric techniques show us that

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what happens in our minds and where we

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direct our Focus might actually be some

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of the most important things to get

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right if we want our situations to

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improve so the big system becomes an

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operation in belief management education

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becomes pre-approved fact regurgitation

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news becomes aggressively fear-based and

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culture is reduced to a sneaky siren

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coaxing our mental ships to crash

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against the rocks of distraction

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depression and disappointment but when I

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read the work of today's guest Mitch

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Horowitz I am reminded of the research

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that says there is real power and

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positive thought that there's real value

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in clearly defining and aiming at one's

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goals and that spiritual forces are not

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only real they're most likely the most

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important tools we've been neglecting

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for the uninitiated Mitch is an author

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and lecturer focused on areas like

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alternative spirituality Outsider

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history and the long-standing quest to

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bring empowerment and agency back into

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the human condition he is written on

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everything from the occult influences on

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Ronald Reagan to the checkered career of

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professional skeptic James Randy for the

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New York Times The Wall Street Journal

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The Washington Post Time Salon big think

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Politico Boeing boing and a wide range

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of zines and scholarly journals his

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books include occult America White House

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seances Ouija circles masons in the

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secret Mystic history of our nation one

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simple idea how the lessons of positive

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thinking can transform your life the

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miracle Club how thoughts become reality

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and has recently released collection of

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essays and articles on the occult and

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Outsider experiences uncertain places

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just to name a few a guest he's been

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requested many times around here the new

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thought thinker captain of the miracle

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club and occult author extraordinaire

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Mitch welcome to the higher side

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thank you my man glad to be here yeah

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and this is going to be great I read a

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cult America and the Miracle Club years

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ago and really enjoyed both but we are

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doing the dance today because inner

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tradition sent me your latest book the

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collection of essays called uncertain

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places and there is a lot to like about

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it UFOs ESP research hermeticism and

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more but to kick this off and sort of

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play off that intro there materialism

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can be a very deeply rooted assumption

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in Western Minds let's bust that up a

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bit when you're talking to someone who

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doesn't see an individual's mind as

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consequential to the outside world or

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that there's much value in our inner

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world at all what are some of the go-to

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data points to show that the mind can

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have an influence on the outside world

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and matter might be more malleable than

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we are led to believe

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the data is extraordinary we probably

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have at this point about 80 years of

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data emerging from academic ESP research

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that demonstrates an extra physical

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effect that not only demonstrates the

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ability of mind-to-mind communication

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but of the ability of people's minds to

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glean information in ways that violate

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time space distance material not only

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that but really I would say emergent

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over the past 20 years or so we have

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wonderful experiments in precognition

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that actually demonstrate a cognitive

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Improvement to tasks you apply yourself

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to when you continue studying after the

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fact it violates all commonly observed

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properties of philosophical materialism

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of most of our linear experience of

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day-to-day life but it's there it's real

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it's bulletproof and it's something that

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I encourage people to experiment with

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Plus it hardly needs saying to your

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audience that the founders of quantum

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mechanics themselves all believed in a

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perceptually based reality these were

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the founders of world-class science in

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the 20th and 21st century and all of

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them were philosophical idealists as

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opposed to materialists they believe

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that perception determines reality that

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can be conditioned by a lot of

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countervailing factors but it's as real

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as the floorboards beneath our feet

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Fields like neuroplasticity advances in

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Placebo response research and such have

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all affirmed this perceptual basis of

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reality it's an exciting time to be

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alive because materialism or the

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philosophy that matter creates itself

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and that nothing exists outside of

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standard Newtonian laws which I don't

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think Isaac Newton himself would have

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agreed with

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they often say Christ was not a

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Christian Newton was not a Newtonian and

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we live in a world where these things

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are having a real impact on our culture

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our sense of ourselves and it's

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something that I encourage the

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individual to experiment with

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wow well said it's like you've done this

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before but that point about studying

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something after the fact having kind of

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non-linear effects that's something I

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didn't really expect to get into but I

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am intrigued by violations of linear

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cause and effect can you elaborate on

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that particular piece of the puzzle and

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the best evidence we have for that

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sure about 10 years ago a psychologist

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at Cornell named Daryl bem published a

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paper based on a decade of study and he

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was experimenting with the question of

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precognition whether we can see into the

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so-called future and I say so-called

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because we really live in a reality

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where we understand time to be

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conditional time bends in certain

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circumstances and the notion that time

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is this uninterrupted law of linearity

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although we certainly experience it as

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such and it may be necessary for five

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sensory beings to experience it as such

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it's not the final truth it's not the

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final answer it's not the ultimate or

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absolute of the reality that we live in

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so in short in bem's most exciting

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experiments he gave subjects a simple

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word test

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you memorize a certain number of words

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and then you repeat back however many

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you're capable of remembering so if it's

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a list of 10 words maybe you remember

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five six something of that nature

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he then added a wrinkle to the test

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where he asked his subjects to study the

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word list again after giving their

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replies in the second step when they

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studied a word list again after

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delivering their replies their responses

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spiked the spike was small but it was

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substantial and it was replicated over

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thousands of Trials now it's helpful to

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be writing about bem's work 10 years

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down the road because

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it's been meta-analyzed and it's proven

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confirmatory in a study that consisted

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of 90 samples in 33 different labs in 14

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different nations and the confirmatory

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response pretty much matched the level

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of bem's original experiments so the

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challenge is if you do something

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whatever it is that you're engaged in

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whether it's an athletic Pursuit whether

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it's cognitive whatever it may be

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there's evidence to show that your

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cognition and your performance can Spike

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based on things that you do in the

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future it sounds so Twilight Zone and so

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outside of our ordinary way of viewing

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the world but it actually is not

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violative of Einstein's theories of

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space-time it's not violative of

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Theses and theories that have entered

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the conversation to explain the surreal

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mechanical activity that we observe in

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quantum physics it's just a way of

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showing that our cognition might not be

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wholly Bound by linear time and I think

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it's one of the most exciting areas of

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psychical research and an area that the

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individual can experiment with him or

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herself yeah no doubt very exciting I

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heard you talking to Duncan Trussell not

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too long ago and I think it was bem's

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work you were discussing and you made

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the point which I think is a good one

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that his experiments were vetted harder

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than a lot of pharmaceuticals on the

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market today but still not accepted

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which is odd because we take a lot of

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things into our body with less vetting

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than this very research

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that is so right on and it's such an

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important Point even bem's most

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vociferous critics and he's got plenty

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celebrate him for his transparency what

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bem did in these experiments is almost

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unprecedented in the social sciences he

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obviously understood that this data was

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going to be highly controversial so he

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took a unique step

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he made his software available free to

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anybody who asked this was in his own

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expense he prepared an instruction

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manual that would allow other

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researchers to replicate his experiments

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and he threw open the file drawer so to

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speak so that critics supporters curious

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people whomever could review his

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research in detail it was an

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unprecedented degree of transparency

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especially in in the social sciences

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where people very jealously guard their

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results and their methodology because

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they're worried about pushback and

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they're usually writing their articles

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just so they can check off a box in

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their 10-year application and so forth

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and Ben's transparency was virtually

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unprecedented that's why the sample was

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so large 10 years hence in the

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meta-analysis that confirmed his work he

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showed a lot of Bravery a lot of Ethics

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a lot of transparency and of course his

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critics attack him based on the

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tautological response that precognition

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cannot be real because precognition

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cannot be real because it violates

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common observation which a terrible

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yardstick for the pursuit of knowledge

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and bem has really opened a door for

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people to continue these experiments

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either in a clinical situation or in

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private for that matter

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it's just an extraordinary turning of a

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page I think in psychical research

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yeah it totally is and to kind of get a

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little deeper into how we find ourselves

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in this situation I like this quote

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where you say we possess statistical

279
00:12:28,250 --> 00:12:26,279
evidence as good as any for the

280
00:12:30,650 --> 00:12:28,260
anomalous transfer of information or ESP

281
00:12:32,569 --> 00:12:30,660
in laboratory settings but that fact

282
00:12:34,810 --> 00:12:32,579
raises more questions than it answers

283
00:12:36,829 --> 00:12:34,820
and is rejected by a modernist

284
00:12:38,990 --> 00:12:36,839
Intelligentsia that regards

285
00:12:42,710 --> 00:12:39,000
countervailing evidence to materialism

286
00:12:44,329 --> 00:12:42,720
as the catechist does heresy well I love

287
00:12:46,430 --> 00:12:44,339
it and isn't that interesting what do

288
00:12:49,129 --> 00:12:46,440
you make of this cultural Paradigm we

289
00:12:52,009 --> 00:12:49,139
have where we are presented with the

290
00:12:54,230 --> 00:12:52,019
experts of this quote Intelligentsia and

291
00:12:57,050 --> 00:12:54,240
they do dismiss all of this evidence of

292
00:12:59,569 --> 00:12:57,060
Mind do you think they are being

293
00:13:02,210 --> 00:12:59,579
genuinely blinded by a Dogma or are they

294
00:13:05,629 --> 00:13:02,220
trying to steer regular folks away from

295
00:13:07,250 --> 00:13:05,639
something useful and Powerful

296
00:13:08,990 --> 00:13:07,260
you know it's an interesting question

297
00:13:10,190 --> 00:13:09,000
Greg and one of the things I write about

298
00:13:13,910 --> 00:13:10,200
in the book

299
00:13:17,509 --> 00:13:13,920
is that when I debate the Skeptics and I

300
00:13:19,490 --> 00:13:17,519
do seek out Skeptics to debate

301
00:13:21,650 --> 00:13:19,500
as William Blake wrote opposition is

302
00:13:23,269 --> 00:13:21,660
true friendship and we don't get better

303
00:13:25,550 --> 00:13:23,279
at something unless there's a certain

304
00:13:27,650 --> 00:13:25,560
degree of resistance

305
00:13:30,769 --> 00:13:27,660
I really hit the limits of my

306
00:13:32,990 --> 00:13:30,779
understanding of human nature because I

307
00:13:34,910 --> 00:13:33,000
could sit back and I could engage in the

308
00:13:39,590 --> 00:13:34,920
same armchair analysis that anybody

309
00:13:42,290 --> 00:13:39,600
could about why people display this

310
00:13:43,550 --> 00:13:42,300
blinding lack of curiosity or this

311
00:13:45,970 --> 00:13:43,560
absolute

312
00:13:51,350 --> 00:13:45,980
airtight

313
00:13:52,850 --> 00:13:51,360
closure to new ideas or evidence

314
00:13:54,530 --> 00:13:52,860
sure you know I could say it's

315
00:13:56,569 --> 00:13:54,540
fear-based I could say it's their

316
00:13:58,970 --> 00:13:56,579
training I could say it's the legacy of

317
00:14:02,150 --> 00:13:58,980
modernist culture and there's all kinds

318
00:14:04,730 --> 00:14:02,160
of possibilities that hold water

319
00:14:08,030 --> 00:14:04,740
but I find that their resistance is so

320
00:14:09,530 --> 00:14:08,040
strict and so overwhelming

321
00:14:11,389 --> 00:14:09,540
that

322
00:14:14,870 --> 00:14:11,399
even though I'd like to consider myself

323
00:14:16,990 --> 00:14:14,880
a student of human nature I hit a wall I

324
00:14:20,810 --> 00:14:17,000
can't understand

325
00:14:22,790 --> 00:14:20,820
why some of the Contemporary Skeptics

326
00:14:25,730 --> 00:14:22,800
like Stephen Pinker for example at

327
00:14:29,269 --> 00:14:25,740
Harvard who I recently engaged in a

328
00:14:32,030 --> 00:14:29,279
exchange with about Ben's work I can't

329
00:14:33,949 --> 00:14:32,040
understand the absolute unwillingness to

330
00:14:37,970 --> 00:14:33,959
even crack open the door

331
00:14:41,030 --> 00:14:37,980
to a question the lack of curiosity it's

332
00:14:43,370 --> 00:14:41,040
almost like dealing with a kind of

333
00:14:45,769 --> 00:14:43,380
counter fundamentalism a mirror

334
00:14:47,750 --> 00:14:45,779
fundamentalism you know Jacob needleman

335
00:14:49,610 --> 00:14:47,760
the philosopher who died several weeks

336
00:14:51,590 --> 00:14:49,620
ago used to say that the definition of

337
00:14:53,629 --> 00:14:51,600
fundamentalism is I'm right you're wrong

338
00:14:56,329 --> 00:14:53,639
which is a pretty good definition

339
00:14:57,710 --> 00:14:56,339
it doesn't hinge on being religious it

340
00:15:00,350 --> 00:14:57,720
doesn't hinge on any one particular

341
00:15:02,930 --> 00:15:00,360
culture what have you that's exactly the

342
00:15:05,030 --> 00:15:02,940
mindset that you find among many of the

343
00:15:07,430 --> 00:15:05,040
Skeptics and

344
00:15:08,629 --> 00:15:07,440
I had a wall in understanding what their

345
00:15:09,829 --> 00:15:08,639
motives are

346
00:15:12,170 --> 00:15:09,839
hmm

347
00:15:14,930 --> 00:15:12,180
yeah cheers to that it is really tough

348
00:15:16,009 --> 00:15:14,940
to uncover motives especially if some

349
00:15:18,590 --> 00:15:16,019
people aren't even aware of them

350
00:15:20,990 --> 00:15:18,600
themselves but let's talk about how a

351
00:15:23,030 --> 00:15:21,000
person can and should be using this

352
00:15:25,370 --> 00:15:23,040
information their mind their intention

353
00:15:27,470 --> 00:15:25,380
their belief you write psychological

354
00:15:29,930 --> 00:15:27,480
dimensions of belief are incredibly

355
00:15:32,210 --> 00:15:29,940
powerful believing in the possibility of

356
00:15:34,730 --> 00:15:32,220
an outcome as William James noted maybe

357
00:15:37,250 --> 00:15:34,740
the vital ingredient for that outcome to

358
00:15:38,750 --> 00:15:37,260
occur at all see I think that is true

359
00:15:40,310 --> 00:15:38,760
it's something I've experienced in my

360
00:15:42,769 --> 00:15:40,320
own life and I know people who really

361
00:15:46,009 --> 00:15:42,779
struggle with self-doubt to a degree

362
00:15:48,410 --> 00:15:46,019
that they just don't take any chances

363
00:15:50,810 --> 00:15:48,420
and live a life they aren't fulfilled by

364
00:15:52,910 --> 00:15:50,820
working a job they actively dislike this

365
00:15:55,910 --> 00:15:52,920
kind of thing because they don't believe

366
00:15:58,970 --> 00:15:55,920
it could be any better or they over

367
00:16:01,069 --> 00:15:58,980
focus on the thoughts of how worse it

368
00:16:03,350 --> 00:16:01,079
could get what would you say to help

369
00:16:06,769 --> 00:16:03,360
those people

370
00:16:08,629 --> 00:16:06,779
we all fear consequence that's common to

371
00:16:11,629 --> 00:16:08,639
human nature and obviously fear of

372
00:16:13,670 --> 00:16:11,639
consequence is necessary to some extent

373
00:16:16,189 --> 00:16:13,680
if our ancient ancestors didn't fear

374
00:16:18,050 --> 00:16:16,199
consequence they might have gotten eaten

375
00:16:20,269 --> 00:16:18,060
by saber-toothed tigers or what have you

376
00:16:23,449 --> 00:16:20,279
so it's obviously baked into the human

377
00:16:26,870 --> 00:16:23,459
situation and there are good reasons for

378
00:16:30,550 --> 00:16:26,880
it but it gets so baked in that we use

379
00:16:33,110 --> 00:16:30,560
fear of consequence as an excuse for

380
00:16:35,449 --> 00:16:33,120
inertia and one of the things William

381
00:16:38,269 --> 00:16:35,459
James pointed out is that we all live by

382
00:16:41,930 --> 00:16:38,279
a Maybe if there's not a maybe in our

383
00:16:44,030 --> 00:16:41,940
lives we're completely static and Frozen

384
00:16:46,069 --> 00:16:44,040
and

385
00:16:48,710 --> 00:16:46,079
I think that

386
00:16:51,230 --> 00:16:48,720
we all have to acknowledge whatever our

387
00:16:54,829 --> 00:16:51,240
perspective on life there's an element

388
00:16:57,350 --> 00:16:54,839
of maybe there's an element of belief

389
00:16:59,990 --> 00:16:57,360
there's an element of assumption it's

390
00:17:03,110 --> 00:17:00,000
omnipresent why not

391
00:17:05,990 --> 00:17:03,120
Venture the assumption that you are

392
00:17:08,750 --> 00:17:06,000
capable of doing something that's not an

393
00:17:12,110 --> 00:17:08,760
unreasonable assumption we understand

394
00:17:14,990 --> 00:17:12,120
the elements of how we get things done

395
00:17:17,630 --> 00:17:15,000
from a cognitive and motor perspective

396
00:17:20,449 --> 00:17:17,640
and I would argue that there are thought

397
00:17:22,789 --> 00:17:20,459
agencies that come to our assistance

398
00:17:26,270 --> 00:17:22,799
we've been talking about some of them if

399
00:17:28,189 --> 00:17:26,280
we venture that that may be there's

400
00:17:30,650 --> 00:17:28,199
always going to be examples out there in

401
00:17:34,430 --> 00:17:30,660
the culture of somebody who takes a

402
00:17:37,549 --> 00:17:34,440
disastrously depleting action but I've

403
00:17:40,669 --> 00:17:37,559
personally found in life that

404
00:17:44,390 --> 00:17:40,679
disaster usually arises from inertia

405
00:17:47,090 --> 00:17:44,400
disaster usually arises from saying no

406
00:17:49,130 --> 00:17:47,100
to Opportunities from not making a leap

407
00:17:51,230 --> 00:17:49,140
from determining that I understand

408
00:17:53,270 --> 00:17:51,240
exactly what's going on and I'm not

409
00:17:56,090 --> 00:17:53,280
going to get roped into this

410
00:17:57,409 --> 00:17:56,100
I've had more tragedies arise in life

411
00:18:00,669 --> 00:17:57,419
from saying

412
00:18:04,310 --> 00:18:00,679
no to something good then

413
00:18:06,710 --> 00:18:04,320
venturing a slightly risky yes you'll

414
00:18:10,010 --> 00:18:06,720
feel more alive and the likelihood is

415
00:18:11,990 --> 00:18:10,020
that the consequences will not be what

416
00:18:14,390 --> 00:18:12,000
you fear it may be an aspect of human

417
00:18:16,730 --> 00:18:14,400
nature and this may be Universal with

418
00:18:18,169 --> 00:18:16,740
the exception of a few people who seem

419
00:18:20,990 --> 00:18:18,179
to have a particular gift for getting

420
00:18:23,570 --> 00:18:21,000
themselves into scrapes but most of us

421
00:18:26,330 --> 00:18:23,580
exaggerate consequences and I found that

422
00:18:29,630 --> 00:18:26,340
again and again so for example if a

423
00:18:32,690 --> 00:18:29,640
person is in a situation let's say where

424
00:18:35,090 --> 00:18:32,700
they feel really depleted by their

425
00:18:37,430 --> 00:18:35,100
surroundings whether it's work based

426
00:18:39,830 --> 00:18:37,440
whether it's their social group their

427
00:18:41,570 --> 00:18:39,840
peers whatever it is they fear that

428
00:18:43,490 --> 00:18:41,580
exiting these surroundings is almost

429
00:18:46,430 --> 00:18:43,500
going to amount to a kind of social or

430
00:18:47,930 --> 00:18:46,440
economic starvation that virtually never

431
00:18:51,110 --> 00:18:47,940
occurs

432
00:18:53,870 --> 00:18:51,120
and yet the exaggerated sense of

433
00:18:56,810 --> 00:18:53,880
consequence is such that year after year

434
00:18:59,510 --> 00:18:56,820
after year we remain in the same chair

435
00:19:03,230 --> 00:18:59,520
so to speak and sometimes literally

436
00:19:05,750 --> 00:19:03,240
without ever venturing beyond that cave

437
00:19:08,990 --> 00:19:05,760
and we don't know what's beyond that

438
00:19:11,930 --> 00:19:09,000
cave but if a person is suffering then I

439
00:19:14,510 --> 00:19:11,940
think it's a necessary wager and

440
00:19:17,390 --> 00:19:14,520
probably a very vivifying wager to say

441
00:19:19,730 --> 00:19:17,400
I'm unhappy in this cave I want to see

442
00:19:22,130 --> 00:19:19,740
what's beyond it at least you'll know I

443
00:19:25,909 --> 00:19:22,140
mean without verification there's no

444
00:19:27,169 --> 00:19:25,919
surge people recite these truisms all

445
00:19:30,110 --> 00:19:27,179
the time

446
00:19:32,870 --> 00:19:30,120
about what constitutes happiness in life

447
00:19:34,669 --> 00:19:32,880
but one doesn't really know unless

448
00:19:38,630 --> 00:19:34,679
you're in the midst of it unless you're

449
00:19:42,470 --> 00:19:38,640
experiencing it and I think that to be

450
00:19:45,650 --> 00:19:42,480
human is almost to embark on gambits

451
00:19:47,810 --> 00:19:45,660
embark on Wagers obviously a person has

452
00:19:50,750 --> 00:19:47,820
to know what he or she is doing

453
00:19:52,549 --> 00:19:50,760
you don't step into a a boxing ring if

454
00:19:56,390 --> 00:19:52,559
you don't have experience in that

455
00:19:58,430 --> 00:19:56,400
particular world but to never do so I

456
00:19:59,870 --> 00:19:58,440
think it's denying a basic part of what

457
00:20:02,570 --> 00:19:59,880
it means to be human I think it results

458
00:20:04,010 --> 00:20:02,580
in a lot of Sorrow a lot of depression a

459
00:20:07,669 --> 00:20:04,020
lot of anxiety

460
00:20:11,270 --> 00:20:07,679
yes yes I agree and I often think why do

461
00:20:13,430 --> 00:20:11,280
so many people default to focusing on

462
00:20:15,110 --> 00:20:13,440
the negative is it natural or is it

463
00:20:16,730 --> 00:20:15,120
engineered I mean our news cycle

464
00:20:19,370 --> 00:20:16,740
certainly doesn't give us much to be

465
00:20:22,250 --> 00:20:19,380
optimistic about and then I think well

466
00:20:25,310 --> 00:20:22,260
if where our attention goes and our

467
00:20:27,470 --> 00:20:25,320
mental polarity is so key to the

468
00:20:30,770 --> 00:20:27,480
manifestation of our experience that is

469
00:20:33,289 --> 00:20:30,780
almost criminal to not promote some

470
00:20:35,990 --> 00:20:33,299
positive stories in that 24-hour news

471
00:20:38,150 --> 00:20:36,000
cycle it just seems like everything is

472
00:20:40,730 --> 00:20:38,160
slanted to the negative but when people

473
00:20:43,130 --> 00:20:40,740
kind of scoff at this idea that we do

474
00:20:45,830 --> 00:20:43,140
manifest our reality from our actions

475
00:20:47,750 --> 00:20:45,840
which start as thoughts I say okay well

476
00:20:49,669 --> 00:20:47,760
so you don't really like your job

477
00:20:52,130 --> 00:20:49,679
managing the dairy section at the

478
00:20:54,529 --> 00:20:52,140
grocery store okay but you did manifest

479
00:20:56,330 --> 00:20:54,539
that you saw they were hiring you filled

480
00:20:58,010 --> 00:20:56,340
out the application you put your best

481
00:21:00,590 --> 00:20:58,020
foot forward through three interviews

482
00:21:03,710 --> 00:21:00,600
and you show up on time day after day

483
00:21:06,529 --> 00:21:03,720
you are manifesting you're just aiming

484
00:21:08,810 --> 00:21:06,539
at things that you don't even want

485
00:21:11,630 --> 00:21:08,820
I think that's absolutely true and

486
00:21:14,029 --> 00:21:11,640
there's a lot of safety involved in

487
00:21:17,690 --> 00:21:14,039
things that we think we can get our arms

488
00:21:19,690 --> 00:21:17,700
around I think that as step one the

489
00:21:22,010 --> 00:21:19,700
individual has to understand

490
00:21:23,930 --> 00:21:22,020
apropos what you were just saying that

491
00:21:26,029 --> 00:21:23,940
there is an element of choice in all of

492
00:21:26,930 --> 00:21:26,039
this there is absolutely an element of

493
00:21:29,510 --> 00:21:26,940
choice

494
00:21:31,669 --> 00:21:29,520
I find for example

495
00:21:35,270 --> 00:21:31,679
that people sometimes complain to me

496
00:21:38,810 --> 00:21:35,280
around the holiday season that they feel

497
00:21:40,370 --> 00:21:38,820
humiliated by their in-laws or some

498
00:21:42,049 --> 00:21:40,380
other family member or they feel

499
00:21:44,630 --> 00:21:42,059
misunderstood

500
00:21:48,289 --> 00:21:44,640
in Social settings

501
00:21:49,610 --> 00:21:48,299
and they never even give themselves the

502
00:21:52,549 --> 00:21:49,620
wiggle room

503
00:21:56,350 --> 00:21:52,559
mentally emotionally to realize that

504
00:21:59,810 --> 00:21:56,360
being in those situations is a choice

505
00:22:02,750 --> 00:21:59,820
and as I was saying earlier there may be

506
00:22:04,610 --> 00:22:02,760
consequences if you exit that there are

507
00:22:07,610 --> 00:22:04,620
consequences no matter what we do most

508
00:22:10,549 --> 00:22:07,620
of them unforeseen but

509
00:22:12,649 --> 00:22:10,559
if a person feels that they're

510
00:22:14,450 --> 00:22:12,659
egregiously misunderstood in their

511
00:22:16,610 --> 00:22:14,460
social group or in their job or what

512
00:22:20,029 --> 00:22:16,620
have you

513
00:22:22,250 --> 00:22:20,039
they may say well you know I have

514
00:22:25,130 --> 00:22:22,260
economic needs

515
00:22:27,590 --> 00:22:25,140
I have social needs I have emotional

516
00:22:31,010 --> 00:22:27,600
needs if I was to exit this unhappy

517
00:22:34,669 --> 00:22:31,020
situation everything could blow up in my

518
00:22:38,210 --> 00:22:34,679
face and it's true there are needs

519
00:22:40,669 --> 00:22:38,220
present but at the same time

520
00:22:43,909 --> 00:22:40,679
one has to realize that you're deferring

521
00:22:47,330 --> 00:22:43,919
to those needs you don't really know

522
00:22:49,250 --> 00:22:47,340
what will happen personally speaking and

523
00:22:51,370 --> 00:22:49,260
I say this just from my own intimate

524
00:22:54,470 --> 00:22:51,380
experience

525
00:22:57,350 --> 00:22:54,480
anytime I've exited a situation where I

526
00:22:58,909 --> 00:22:57,360
felt misunderstood for example or I felt

527
00:23:00,770 --> 00:22:58,919
like I was around people that I just

528
00:23:03,409 --> 00:23:00,780
wasn't rocking to

529
00:23:06,950 --> 00:23:03,419
I have been happier I have been much

530
00:23:10,310 --> 00:23:06,960
happier I'm happier today at age 57 than

531
00:23:12,830 --> 00:23:10,320
I was at age 17 or at age 27 in large

532
00:23:15,770 --> 00:23:12,840
measure because of that I have never

533
00:23:18,830 --> 00:23:15,780
found that the consequences were

534
00:23:21,409 --> 00:23:18,840
anywhere near as heavy as I was thinking

535
00:23:24,230 --> 00:23:21,419
and sometimes as it happens there were

536
00:23:26,570 --> 00:23:24,240
none at all the point is just to get in

537
00:23:29,029 --> 00:23:26,580
touch with what you were describing Greg

538
00:23:31,010 --> 00:23:29,039
which is that there is a choice present

539
00:23:33,470 --> 00:23:31,020
because if one doesn't acknowledge that

540
00:23:35,930 --> 00:23:33,480
then it's almost like we're rowing a

541
00:23:38,090 --> 00:23:35,940
boat with one ore and we're not there

542
00:23:41,390 --> 00:23:38,100
are two wars in the water there may be

543
00:23:43,909 --> 00:23:41,400
problems that arise from that rowing but

544
00:23:46,130 --> 00:23:43,919
we do have two ores in the water you've

545
00:23:47,870 --> 00:23:46,140
effectively told yourself almost

546
00:23:49,669 --> 00:23:47,880
hypnotized yourself to believe that

547
00:23:51,950 --> 00:23:49,679
there's only one if you don't

548
00:23:53,270 --> 00:23:51,960
acknowledge the factor of choice

549
00:23:56,270 --> 00:23:53,280
hmm

550
00:23:58,070 --> 00:23:56,280
really good advice I hope as we're going

551
00:24:00,230 --> 00:23:58,080
into a new year and people have

552
00:24:02,210 --> 00:24:00,240
opportunities to think about the

553
00:24:04,250 --> 00:24:02,220
direction of their lives and wipe the

554
00:24:07,130 --> 00:24:04,260
Slate clean and change direction that

555
00:24:09,169 --> 00:24:07,140
they Ponder some of that advice and

556
00:24:10,909 --> 00:24:09,179
let's talk about some of the stuff in

557
00:24:13,130 --> 00:24:10,919
your first essay and on certain places

558
00:24:15,230 --> 00:24:13,140
reclaiming the Damned toward a new

559
00:24:17,090 --> 00:24:15,240
understanding of Bigfoot flying saucers

560
00:24:19,250 --> 00:24:17,100
leprechauns and other inconvenient

561
00:24:22,070 --> 00:24:19,260
realities because I too am a Charles

562
00:24:23,990 --> 00:24:22,080
Fort fan I love paranormal encrypted

563
00:24:25,510 --> 00:24:24,000
encounter stories especially ones that

564
00:24:28,850 --> 00:24:25,520
don't fit into the conventional

565
00:24:31,250 --> 00:24:28,860
categories and it's not to say these

566
00:24:34,430 --> 00:24:31,260
things aren't real but belief does come

567
00:24:37,730 --> 00:24:34,440
into play many times the story starts

568
00:24:40,850 --> 00:24:37,740
with I had the thought to look behind me

569
00:24:43,850 --> 00:24:40,860
or I thought how cool it would be to see

570
00:24:46,310 --> 00:24:43,860
a UFO and then bam I saw one what do you

571
00:24:49,610 --> 00:24:46,320
think of that relationship between our

572
00:24:51,950 --> 00:24:49,620
minds and these 40 inexperiences

573
00:24:54,770 --> 00:24:51,960
one of the things I probe in that essay

574
00:24:56,770 --> 00:24:54,780
is whether there's a psychical Dimension

575
00:24:59,029 --> 00:24:56,780
to all of our experiences including

576
00:25:01,090 --> 00:24:59,039
anomalous encounters

577
00:25:04,070 --> 00:25:01,100
UFO sightings

578
00:25:07,010 --> 00:25:04,080
experiences that might run the gamut

579
00:25:10,310 --> 00:25:07,020
from Cryptids to Poltergeist experiences

580
00:25:16,130 --> 00:25:10,320
it's not that these things aren't real

581
00:25:17,930 --> 00:25:16,140
one of the things that I suggest is that

582
00:25:22,010 --> 00:25:17,940
we may be

583
00:25:24,169 --> 00:25:22,020
through our psyches capable of moving

584
00:25:26,649 --> 00:25:24,179
through different intersections of time

585
00:25:30,649 --> 00:25:26,659
which relates back to the precognition

586
00:25:34,970 --> 00:25:30,659
experiments we were discussing and as

587
00:25:38,230 --> 00:25:34,980
such it's possible that there is a kind

588
00:25:41,750 --> 00:25:38,240
of selectivity that

589
00:25:44,570 --> 00:25:41,760
emerges from our perspective where our

590
00:25:47,330 --> 00:25:44,580
emotionally charged thoughts or our

591
00:25:48,950 --> 00:25:47,340
emotionally charged assumptions or

592
00:25:51,830 --> 00:25:48,960
convictions

593
00:25:53,630 --> 00:25:51,840
it could be that at every instant

594
00:25:55,190 --> 00:25:53,640
including this one right now as we're

595
00:25:58,789 --> 00:25:55,200
speaking

596
00:26:00,950 --> 00:25:58,799
we are taking measurement through our

597
00:26:03,710 --> 00:26:00,960
senses and what our our senses really

598
00:26:05,930 --> 00:26:03,720
but biological instruments of

599
00:26:09,289 --> 00:26:05,940
measurement in a manner that's not

600
00:26:12,049 --> 00:26:09,299
entirely different from what goes on in

601
00:26:14,750 --> 00:26:12,059
a lab when we see in a particle lab for

602
00:26:17,810 --> 00:26:14,760
example measurements are taken and

603
00:26:20,210 --> 00:26:17,820
objects that are in superposition assume

604
00:26:22,250 --> 00:26:20,220
a place of locality they assume in

605
00:26:24,409 --> 00:26:22,260
actuality a reality

606
00:26:28,310 --> 00:26:24,419
this is lawful

607
00:26:30,769 --> 00:26:28,320
this is emerging from 90 or so years of

608
00:26:33,289 --> 00:26:30,779
quantum mechanics experiments nobody

609
00:26:35,169 --> 00:26:33,299
challenges the data the data is not

610
00:26:37,250 --> 00:26:35,179
controversial at least not anymore

611
00:26:39,649 --> 00:26:37,260
what's controversial are the

612
00:26:41,510 --> 00:26:39,659
implications and

613
00:26:42,830 --> 00:26:41,520
I think we owe it to ourselves to

614
00:26:47,090 --> 00:26:42,840
experiment with some of these

615
00:26:50,409 --> 00:26:47,100
implications because the fact is

616
00:26:53,090 --> 00:26:50,419
it is almost a

617
00:26:56,029 --> 00:26:53,100
logical requirement

618
00:26:58,730 --> 00:26:56,039
from what we've discovered emergent from

619
00:27:01,730 --> 00:26:58,740
study of the behavior of material in the

620
00:27:03,649 --> 00:27:01,740
20th and now the 21st century to allow

621
00:27:07,810 --> 00:27:03,659
for the fact that infinite outcomes

622
00:27:11,870 --> 00:27:07,820
exist and there are infinite realities

623
00:27:13,730 --> 00:27:11,880
perhaps concurrently playing out the

624
00:27:17,570 --> 00:27:13,740
thought experiment called Schrodinger's

625
00:27:22,930 --> 00:27:17,580
cat back in 1935 has pretty much

626
00:27:30,769 --> 00:27:27,289
Paradigm of both physical and perceptual

627
00:27:34,450 --> 00:27:30,779
understanding in the 21st century and I

628
00:27:37,610 --> 00:27:34,460
think we have to be brave about

629
00:27:39,409 --> 00:27:37,620
pondering these implications and asking

630
00:27:42,470 --> 00:27:39,419
ourselves when we use the term like

631
00:27:44,930 --> 00:27:42,480
manifest for example maybe the term that

632
00:27:48,350 --> 00:27:44,940
we really ought to be using is Select

633
00:27:51,470 --> 00:27:48,360
maybe there's a psychical process that

634
00:27:54,409 --> 00:27:51,480
is concurrent with the physical process

635
00:27:56,990 --> 00:27:54,419
of exquisitely fine measurement and

636
00:27:57,970 --> 00:27:57,000
exquisitely find measurement reveals

637
00:28:05,990 --> 00:27:57,980
things

638
00:28:07,430 --> 00:28:06,000
experiential level of reality and this

639
00:28:09,470 --> 00:28:07,440
may not be something that's just

640
00:28:11,630 --> 00:28:09,480
confined to the particle lab and it

641
00:28:12,890 --> 00:28:11,640
actually goes beyond particles but this

642
00:28:16,010 --> 00:28:12,900
may be something that's part of a

643
00:28:18,409 --> 00:28:16,020
psychical process as well again this

644
00:28:20,570 --> 00:28:18,419
touches upon some of the precog

645
00:28:21,830 --> 00:28:20,580
experiments I was describing this may

646
00:28:23,510 --> 00:28:21,840
have something to do with the UFO

647
00:28:25,610 --> 00:28:23,520
experience and then it begs the question

648
00:28:27,769 --> 00:28:25,620
of well what are the conditions under

649
00:28:30,049 --> 00:28:27,779
which these things occur can we

650
00:28:33,470 --> 00:28:30,059
replicate these conditions can we induce

651
00:28:37,789 --> 00:28:33,480
these conditions and I think that it's

652
00:28:41,149 --> 00:28:37,799
an area that begs us as a generation to

653
00:28:44,169 --> 00:28:41,159
experiment with yes so well said cheers

654
00:28:46,850 --> 00:28:44,179
to that I absolutely wish there was more

655
00:28:49,430 --> 00:28:46,860
experimentation in pushing up against

656
00:28:51,830 --> 00:28:49,440
that like instead of asking the question

657
00:28:53,930 --> 00:28:51,840
is it or isn't it for another three

658
00:28:56,090 --> 00:28:53,940
decades let's just assume it is and then

659
00:28:58,909 --> 00:28:56,100
push up against how to make the

660
00:29:01,430 --> 00:28:58,919
experiences more repeatable more potent

661
00:29:04,130 --> 00:29:01,440
all that kind of stuff because the data

662
00:29:07,070 --> 00:29:04,140
at the quantum level is very interesting

663
00:29:09,169 --> 00:29:07,080
and it might provide a foundation or

664
00:29:12,289 --> 00:29:09,179
some scaffolding to explain the

665
00:29:15,950 --> 00:29:12,299
unexplainable but when you try to scale

666
00:29:19,070 --> 00:29:15,960
it up to a UFO or Cryptid citing

667
00:29:22,269 --> 00:29:19,080
experience it is quite difficult to do

668
00:29:25,970 --> 00:29:22,279
and you write in the book that

669
00:29:28,669 --> 00:29:25,980
the folklore of say fairy folks or

670
00:29:31,730 --> 00:29:28,679
little trickster beans I mean it extends

671
00:29:35,570 --> 00:29:31,740
across Central America Ireland Polynesia

672
00:29:39,529 --> 00:29:35,580
West Africa very distant groups of

673
00:29:41,450 --> 00:29:39,539
people realized that if you start to as

674
00:29:43,789 --> 00:29:41,460
you say if you start talking about these

675
00:29:45,649 --> 00:29:43,799
beans wood Sprites fairies or brownies

676
00:29:48,110 --> 00:29:45,659
and you invite them into your life they

677
00:29:49,310 --> 00:29:48,120
can show up and cause Mischief so a lot

678
00:29:52,250 --> 00:29:49,320
of people are like we don't talk about

679
00:29:54,230 --> 00:29:52,260
that because I do think it's real but I

680
00:29:56,029 --> 00:29:54,240
can't allow it to be spoken of or it

681
00:29:58,130 --> 00:29:56,039
will come to me that again gets into

682
00:30:01,149 --> 00:29:58,140
that realm of how thoughts are related

683
00:30:04,310 --> 00:30:01,159
but I still struggle with the mechanism

684
00:30:07,789 --> 00:30:04,320
of like what triggers that is the

685
00:30:11,450 --> 00:30:07,799
leprechaun in control of its appearance

686
00:30:13,789 --> 00:30:11,460
to man or is it victim to some random

687
00:30:17,210 --> 00:30:13,799
roll of the dice as is the person who

688
00:30:19,549 --> 00:30:17,220
sees it that kind of stuff well I'm

689
00:30:21,769 --> 00:30:19,559
interested in the implications of string

690
00:30:25,250 --> 00:30:21,779
theory because string theory was devised

691
00:30:28,210 --> 00:30:25,260
tried to harmonize and explain some of

692
00:30:30,889 --> 00:30:28,220
the surreal behavior of matter not only

693
00:30:33,950 --> 00:30:30,899
on the particle level but on the macro

694
00:30:36,529 --> 00:30:33,960
level as well where we experience a kind

695
00:30:39,769 --> 00:30:36,539
of mirror effect where macro objects and

696
00:30:42,529 --> 00:30:39,779
micro particles affect one another at

697
00:30:44,990 --> 00:30:42,539
distances with no obvious causation this

698
00:30:46,970 --> 00:30:45,000
is what Einstein slightly derisively

699
00:30:49,909 --> 00:30:46,980
referred to as spooky action at a

700
00:30:53,210 --> 00:30:49,919
distance and the basis of string theory

701
00:30:56,029 --> 00:30:53,220
is that all things that exist are on

702
00:30:57,529 --> 00:30:56,039
these undulating bands of strings and

703
00:30:59,570 --> 00:30:57,539
there are different intersections of

704
00:31:01,370 --> 00:30:59,580
time or different dimensions where

705
00:31:03,649 --> 00:31:01,380
things are going on all the time just

706
00:31:06,049 --> 00:31:03,659
like in hours and they may be affecting

707
00:31:09,049 --> 00:31:06,059
things that we experience in ours it's

708
00:31:12,409 --> 00:31:09,059
possible that at sensitive moments

709
00:31:13,730 --> 00:31:12,419
although we don't know our psyches might

710
00:31:16,250 --> 00:31:13,740
travel amidst these different

711
00:31:19,970 --> 00:31:16,260
intersections of time maybe at a moment

712
00:31:21,909 --> 00:31:19,980
of extreme passion and as such

713
00:31:24,409 --> 00:31:21,919
we may be

714
00:31:26,810 --> 00:31:24,419
catching a wink or a glimpse of

715
00:31:30,649 --> 00:31:26,820
something that's real that's occurring

716
00:31:32,510 --> 00:31:30,659
that's affecting life in our own range

717
00:31:34,909 --> 00:31:32,520
of experience

718
00:31:37,990 --> 00:31:34,919
but that exists in a so-called other

719
00:31:41,870 --> 00:31:38,000
dimension or other intersection of time

720
00:31:43,130 --> 00:31:41,880
and perspective itself May actualize

721
00:31:45,470 --> 00:31:43,140
things

722
00:31:47,690 --> 00:31:45,480
and I must add not only extraordinary

723
00:31:50,830 --> 00:31:47,700
things but ordinary things as well it

724
00:31:54,710 --> 00:31:50,840
could be that at every instant of life

725
00:31:58,070 --> 00:31:54,720
we are selecting in effect and with that

726
00:32:01,370 --> 00:31:58,080
selection comes a whole sense of

727
00:32:03,289 --> 00:32:01,380
so-called past present future all these

728
00:32:05,750 --> 00:32:03,299
things the past in particular seem

729
00:32:08,930 --> 00:32:05,760
completely fits to us but we don't

730
00:32:11,210 --> 00:32:08,940
really know how reality Works in any

731
00:32:13,909 --> 00:32:11,220
ultimate sense we only are peaking

732
00:32:17,389 --> 00:32:13,919
through a keyhole on our knees in terms

733
00:32:19,010 --> 00:32:17,399
of our ordinary frame of reference but

734
00:32:21,769 --> 00:32:19,020
it could be that at each instant

735
00:32:24,049 --> 00:32:21,779
including this one right now all of us

736
00:32:26,510 --> 00:32:24,059
are perceiving things that are

737
00:32:30,830 --> 00:32:26,520
concretely real and that bring with them

738
00:32:33,769 --> 00:32:30,840
a kind of perspective on the past that

739
00:32:36,470 --> 00:32:33,779
seems absolutely actual absolutely fixed

740
00:32:39,710 --> 00:32:36,480
but we could be crisscrossing among

741
00:32:42,409 --> 00:32:39,720
infinite possibilities and outcomes all

742
00:32:45,169 --> 00:32:42,419
the time and it's an extraordinary

743
00:32:48,350 --> 00:32:45,179
Prospect effect and it's something that

744
00:32:50,269 --> 00:32:48,360
I ask people to consider in terms of

745
00:32:53,870 --> 00:32:50,279
their daily experience I'm friends with

746
00:32:58,570 --> 00:32:53,880
a novelist who when he was a little kid

747
00:33:01,909 --> 00:32:58,580
dreamed of publishing novels as an adult

748
00:33:05,149 --> 00:33:01,919
and he used to draw pictures of these

749
00:33:08,090 --> 00:33:05,159
book jackets and so forth from his

750
00:33:09,110 --> 00:33:08,100
future predictive novels and he would

751
00:33:11,210 --> 00:33:09,120
include

752
00:33:14,389 --> 00:33:11,220
quotes or endorsements on these book

753
00:33:16,430 --> 00:33:14,399
jackets and he included one from the

754
00:33:19,130 --> 00:33:16,440
horror writer Clive Barker who was a

755
00:33:22,009 --> 00:33:19,140
literary hero of his he's now a grown

756
00:33:23,990 --> 00:33:22,019
man has his first novel out and sure

757
00:33:26,630 --> 00:33:24,000
enough there's a cover quote a cover

758
00:33:29,269 --> 00:33:26,640
endorsement from Clive Barker and he

759
00:33:31,970 --> 00:33:29,279
wondered was I Paving the way for this

760
00:33:34,850 --> 00:33:31,980
as a little kid or does my perception of

761
00:33:38,450 --> 00:33:34,860
the past in a real and actual way change

762
00:33:40,610 --> 00:33:38,460
itself rearrange itself because I

763
00:33:43,250 --> 00:33:40,620
conceptualized this in the here and now

764
00:33:46,009 --> 00:33:43,260
and that brought with it a whole sense

765
00:33:48,769 --> 00:33:46,019
of what occurred when I was a kid it's

766
00:33:51,049 --> 00:33:48,779
just something to consider because we're

767
00:33:53,029 --> 00:33:51,059
so acclimated to thinking of time in

768
00:33:55,070 --> 00:33:53,039
this straight hour away but we have

769
00:33:58,610 --> 00:33:55,080
evidence that that's not really true the

770
00:34:01,190 --> 00:33:58,620
time is conditional the time bends that

771
00:34:03,289 --> 00:34:01,200
we're not just locked into this linear

772
00:34:04,549 --> 00:34:03,299
framework so we may be much more

773
00:34:06,669 --> 00:34:04,559
powerful

774
00:34:10,730 --> 00:34:06,679
than we've been brought up to understand

775
00:34:12,649 --> 00:34:10,740
yeah that is so interesting and I often

776
00:34:15,109 --> 00:34:12,659
do think like looking at the job I have

777
00:34:19,070 --> 00:34:15,119
now in retrospect I've had little

778
00:34:21,770 --> 00:34:19,080
experiences that push me towards this or

779
00:34:24,230 --> 00:34:21,780
they fit with the whole story where they

780
00:34:26,149 --> 00:34:24,240
wouldn't have had I not done this job

781
00:34:28,609 --> 00:34:26,159
and I think that's just really

782
00:34:30,710 --> 00:34:28,619
interesting I wonder if given let's

783
00:34:33,530 --> 00:34:30,720
assume that model is kind of true that

784
00:34:36,290 --> 00:34:33,540
like you have many selves I guess across

785
00:34:39,409 --> 00:34:36,300
time I wonder if there's a way to tap

786
00:34:41,750 --> 00:34:39,419
into your future self or to find a

787
00:34:43,609 --> 00:34:41,760
better relationship with this other

788
00:34:46,669 --> 00:34:43,619
version of yourself your unconscious

789
00:34:49,369 --> 00:34:46,679
your subconscious mind and like string

790
00:34:53,810 --> 00:34:49,379
yourself along or pull yourself from the

791
00:34:56,990 --> 00:34:53,820
future towards your optimal life

792
00:35:00,829 --> 00:34:57,000
well one of the things I think

793
00:35:04,250 --> 00:35:00,839
a person needs to start with is real

794
00:35:06,829 --> 00:35:04,260
unembarrassed intimate clarity about

795
00:35:08,930 --> 00:35:06,839
what that optimal life is because we all

796
00:35:10,910 --> 00:35:08,940
think that we know what we want but

797
00:35:12,829 --> 00:35:10,920
we're victims of peer pressure we're

798
00:35:15,829 --> 00:35:12,839
victims of cultural and societal

799
00:35:18,410 --> 00:35:15,839
pressure we internalize these things and

800
00:35:20,710 --> 00:35:18,420
it's kind of shocking to find and I

801
00:35:24,349 --> 00:35:20,720
encounter this in myself

802
00:35:26,810 --> 00:35:24,359
the very rote quality of the things that

803
00:35:28,670 --> 00:35:26,820
we repeat to ourselves internally and

804
00:35:32,990 --> 00:35:28,680
William James used to feel that

805
00:35:37,370 --> 00:35:33,000
self-image is Destiny and

806
00:35:38,569 --> 00:35:37,380
our menu of inner talking is really

807
00:35:40,910 --> 00:35:38,579
Limited

808
00:35:42,950 --> 00:35:40,920
there's a very fixed number of thoughts

809
00:35:46,190 --> 00:35:42,960
and ideas and self-perceptions that we

810
00:35:48,530 --> 00:35:46,200
repeat to ourselves and I ask people to

811
00:35:50,829 --> 00:35:48,540
take some time out in private don't

812
00:35:53,829 --> 00:35:50,839
share it with anybody it's your own

813
00:35:56,390 --> 00:35:53,839
exquisitely internal private exercise

814
00:35:59,810 --> 00:35:56,400
and ask yourself as though for the first

815
00:36:01,010 --> 00:35:59,820
time what do I really want in life and

816
00:36:05,930 --> 00:36:01,020
forget

817
00:36:07,510 --> 00:36:05,940
conditioned to think is right or wrong

818
00:36:09,770 --> 00:36:07,520
or is

819
00:36:12,050 --> 00:36:09,780
high-minded or a shallow or a

820
00:36:14,030 --> 00:36:12,060
superficial or whatever all these are

821
00:36:16,130 --> 00:36:14,040
just words and we enure these things

822
00:36:18,349 --> 00:36:16,140
internally and they can become very

823
00:36:20,089 --> 00:36:18,359
limited it's really internalized peer

824
00:36:22,010 --> 00:36:20,099
pressure in a certain way

825
00:36:24,530 --> 00:36:22,020
forget everything forget all the

826
00:36:26,750 --> 00:36:24,540
messaging you know so many things that

827
00:36:29,990 --> 00:36:26,760
we take as hardcore truth as absolute

828
00:36:31,790 --> 00:36:30,000
truth are just familiar To Us by Dent of

829
00:36:34,670 --> 00:36:31,800
repetition and I always tell people

830
00:36:37,490 --> 00:36:34,680
familiarity is not truth every culture

831
00:36:39,530 --> 00:36:37,500
on Earth has a circumstance where a

832
00:36:41,390 --> 00:36:39,540
certain set of ideas maybe a set of

833
00:36:44,630 --> 00:36:41,400
religious ideas set of materialist ideas

834
00:36:48,050 --> 00:36:44,640
get so heavily repeated that we think

835
00:36:49,849 --> 00:36:48,060
it's absolutely fixed but these things

836
00:36:52,250 --> 00:36:49,859
are just conceptual these things are

837
00:36:54,770 --> 00:36:52,260
just Notions of reality that have been

838
00:36:58,130 --> 00:36:54,780
crafted by human hands so give yourself

839
00:37:01,609 --> 00:36:58,140
a break and allow yourself in a

840
00:37:04,310 --> 00:37:01,619
completely unembarrassed way to ask what

841
00:37:06,170 --> 00:37:04,320
do I want and if you do that you'll

842
00:37:10,210 --> 00:37:06,180
almost always come to a surprising

843
00:37:13,069 --> 00:37:10,220
answer so I think that a Clarity

844
00:37:17,270 --> 00:37:13,079
absolute Clarity within and keep it to

845
00:37:20,990 --> 00:37:17,280
yourself is the first step in directing

846
00:37:24,050 --> 00:37:21,000
the possibilities of the psyche yeah

847
00:37:26,990 --> 00:37:24,060
yeah totally agree people go decades

848
00:37:29,510 --> 00:37:27,000
sometimes entire lifetimes just going

849
00:37:31,790 --> 00:37:29,520
with the flow and never even trying to

850
00:37:35,510 --> 00:37:31,800
direct it or asking themselves what they

851
00:37:38,870 --> 00:37:35,520
really want it's like so easy to do and

852
00:37:41,089 --> 00:37:38,880
just it's miraculous that we never get

853
00:37:42,950 --> 00:37:41,099
there or it takes so long to get there

854
00:37:45,349 --> 00:37:42,960
there's many distractions who is The

855
00:37:46,970 --> 00:37:45,359
Masked Singer this week I don't know uh

856
00:37:48,530 --> 00:37:46,980
there's all these things we get focused

857
00:37:49,430 --> 00:37:48,540
on it they don't matter at all the

858
00:37:52,430 --> 00:37:49,440
sports

859
00:37:55,490 --> 00:37:52,440
games and all that but familiarity is

860
00:37:57,470 --> 00:37:55,500
not truth man put that on a t-shirt I

861
00:37:59,329 --> 00:37:57,480
like it oh I may I tell that to my

862
00:38:01,069 --> 00:37:59,339
friend Josh Romero who's an artist we

863
00:38:03,170 --> 00:38:01,079
were talking about some new t-shirts

864
00:38:05,510 --> 00:38:03,180
maybe yeah maybe we'll do a familiarity

865
00:38:07,089 --> 00:38:05,520
is not truth t-shirt you should you

866
00:38:10,970 --> 00:38:07,099
should

867
00:38:14,150 --> 00:38:10,980
so there is a lot in the book that I do

868
00:38:16,130 --> 00:38:14,160
like but I wanted to jump to some of

869
00:38:18,589 --> 00:38:16,140
your comments about conspiracy culture

870
00:38:21,829 --> 00:38:18,599
in the spirit of what you said earlier

871
00:38:23,690 --> 00:38:21,839
opposition is true friendship uh some of

872
00:38:25,609 --> 00:38:23,700
these comments are not so flattering and

873
00:38:28,069 --> 00:38:25,619
I like to say the three pillars of this

874
00:38:29,990 --> 00:38:28,079
show the three broad categories of

875
00:38:32,510 --> 00:38:30,000
discussion that I have with guests are

876
00:38:35,650 --> 00:38:32,520
conspiracy the Paranormal and the Occult

877
00:38:38,870 --> 00:38:35,660
so we go there quite often but you say

878
00:38:40,849 --> 00:38:38,880
conspiracy theorizing is not the work of

879
00:38:43,190 --> 00:38:40,859
independent thinkers it is the work of

880
00:38:47,150 --> 00:38:43,200
those who endanger independent thinkers

881
00:38:49,250 --> 00:38:47,160
and that is like a knife in my heart I

882
00:38:50,630 --> 00:38:49,260
have to ask you to elaborate on what you

883
00:38:52,190 --> 00:38:50,640
mean there because it sounds like

884
00:38:52,970 --> 00:38:52,200
something I would very much disagree

885
00:38:55,010 --> 00:38:52,980
with

886
00:38:59,089 --> 00:38:55,020
well I appreciate you bringing that up

887
00:39:00,770 --> 00:38:59,099
and this is a very live issue for me and

888
00:39:02,990 --> 00:39:00,780
I was talking about this actually with a

889
00:39:05,150 --> 00:39:03,000
podcaster yesterday

890
00:39:07,130 --> 00:39:05,160
let me give you a small piece of

891
00:39:09,650 --> 00:39:07,140
background first for example

892
00:39:11,990 --> 00:39:09,660
about 18 months ago

893
00:39:13,430 --> 00:39:12,000
there's a house up in the Town of

894
00:39:16,310 --> 00:39:13,440
Poughkeepsie which is in New York

895
00:39:18,290 --> 00:39:16,320
State's Hudson Valley that was occupied

896
00:39:22,490 --> 00:39:18,300
by two members of the Church of Satan

897
00:39:24,910 --> 00:39:22,500
and somebody in a Hazmat uniform with

898
00:39:26,530 --> 00:39:24,920
his features

899
00:39:30,109 --> 00:39:26,540
disguised

900
00:39:32,930 --> 00:39:30,119
doused the house with gasoline

901
00:39:35,810 --> 00:39:32,940
set fire to it the two residents escaped

902
00:39:38,150 --> 00:39:35,820
with their lives thankfully but they

903
00:39:40,670 --> 00:39:38,160
lost everything and it was a very

904
00:39:42,829 --> 00:39:40,680
dangerous crime I presume it to be a

905
00:39:44,990 --> 00:39:42,839
hate crime not just random

906
00:39:47,030 --> 00:39:45,000
and

907
00:39:49,069 --> 00:39:47,040
the guy who did it

908
00:39:51,530 --> 00:39:49,079
to my knowledge has never been caught

909
00:39:53,630 --> 00:39:51,540
people can read about it by putting in

910
00:39:55,310 --> 00:39:53,640
the terms I've used into Google doing a

911
00:39:58,609 --> 00:39:55,320
news search

912
00:40:03,290 --> 00:39:58,619
and you know frankly Greg I get really

913
00:40:06,770 --> 00:40:03,300
worried that that kind of thing is

914
00:40:08,390 --> 00:40:06,780
if not in an absolute act of violence

915
00:40:10,430 --> 00:40:08,400
but that kind of thinking that

916
00:40:13,490 --> 00:40:10,440
contributes to that

917
00:40:15,589 --> 00:40:13,500
results from the type of conspiracy

918
00:40:17,990 --> 00:40:15,599
theorizing that's always looking for a

919
00:40:20,569 --> 00:40:18,000
hidden hand or a hidden enemy that

920
00:40:22,849 --> 00:40:20,579
always makes me the hero looking back in

921
00:40:26,210 --> 00:40:22,859
the mirror from myself and that makes

922
00:40:29,450 --> 00:40:26,220
the bad guys somebody else whether it's

923
00:40:31,970 --> 00:40:29,460
satanists or globalists or

924
00:40:33,109 --> 00:40:31,980
some conception of a secret group or

925
00:40:35,210 --> 00:40:33,119
Society

926
00:40:37,970 --> 00:40:35,220
I want to punch holes in the straight

927
00:40:40,670 --> 00:40:37,980
story I absolutely want to punch holes

928
00:40:41,930 --> 00:40:40,680
in the straight story and I honor that

929
00:40:45,470 --> 00:40:41,940
but

930
00:40:48,890 --> 00:40:45,480
as a lot of conspiracy theorizing plays

931
00:40:50,750 --> 00:40:48,900
out in the 21st century and earlier it

932
00:40:54,710 --> 00:40:50,760
strikes me that it very frequently

933
00:40:57,410 --> 00:40:54,720
reflects man's Perpetual search for a

934
00:40:59,510 --> 00:40:57,420
hidden Foe and that hidden foe is almost

935
00:41:05,930 --> 00:40:59,520
always

936
00:41:08,150 --> 00:41:05,940
hero of that story and the bad guy is

937
00:41:10,130 --> 00:41:08,160
almost always someone else and somewhere

938
00:41:12,890 --> 00:41:10,140
else and

939
00:41:15,589 --> 00:41:12,900
the bad guy

940
00:41:18,230 --> 00:41:15,599
very often takes the form of different

941
00:41:21,230 --> 00:41:18,240
historical groups that have been the

942
00:41:23,270 --> 00:41:21,240
subject of calumny or canards or false

943
00:41:26,390 --> 00:41:23,280
rumors false stories

944
00:41:28,550 --> 00:41:26,400
and that way of thought can become a

945
00:41:31,069 --> 00:41:28,560
real habit

946
00:41:34,430 --> 00:41:31,079
I want to poke holes in the straight

947
00:41:37,310 --> 00:41:34,440
story I want to upend materialist

948
00:41:39,710 --> 00:41:37,320
assumptions I want to upend assumptions

949
00:41:44,510 --> 00:41:39,720
about how we live or how we think we

950
00:41:46,550 --> 00:41:44,520
have to live without that selection of a

951
00:41:49,490 --> 00:41:46,560
hidden foe so that's where I'm coming

952
00:41:51,770 --> 00:41:49,500
from with that kind of statement

953
00:41:54,589 --> 00:41:51,780
fair enough fair enough and you know the

954
00:41:56,030 --> 00:41:54,599
example you gave I don't deny that there

955
00:41:59,770 --> 00:41:56,040
is a

956
00:42:03,290 --> 00:41:59,780
overlap in the Venn diagram between

957
00:42:06,589 --> 00:42:03,300
psychological breaks and doing things

958
00:42:09,290 --> 00:42:06,599
you shouldn't do and conspiracy thought

959
00:42:11,150 --> 00:42:09,300
but there's an analogy there because you

960
00:42:14,329 --> 00:42:11,160
also in the book you talk about trying

961
00:42:18,470 --> 00:42:14,339
to Elevate New Age culture that it is so

962
00:42:22,010 --> 00:42:18,480
often judged on the Airy fairy starseed

963
00:42:24,290 --> 00:42:22,020
kind of people and that that's kind of

964
00:42:26,690 --> 00:42:24,300
dismissive to to emphasize the least

965
00:42:28,849 --> 00:42:26,700
among a particular grouper who hold a

966
00:42:31,370 --> 00:42:28,859
particular view you know I try to

967
00:42:32,990 --> 00:42:31,380
elevate conspiracy culture in the same

968
00:42:35,870 --> 00:42:33,000
way that you might try to Elevate New

969
00:42:39,109 --> 00:42:35,880
Age culture which is just to be default

970
00:42:41,630 --> 00:42:39,119
skeptical of a lot of things that we are

971
00:42:44,089 --> 00:42:41,640
told in a mainstream narrative sort of

972
00:42:46,010 --> 00:42:44,099
way and I think if you look at a lot of

973
00:42:49,069 --> 00:42:46,020
history you're going to be right more

974
00:42:50,390 --> 00:42:49,079
than 50 percent of the time by casting

975
00:42:52,730 --> 00:42:50,400
some doubt on there that doesn't have

976
00:42:53,810 --> 00:42:52,740
anything to do with a propensity for

977
00:42:56,810 --> 00:42:53,820
violence

978
00:42:58,970 --> 00:42:56,820
it's just skepticism of official stories

979
00:43:01,550 --> 00:42:58,980
I mean and by its nature when you say

980
00:43:04,250 --> 00:43:01,560
conspiracy theorizing is not the work of

981
00:43:06,230 --> 00:43:04,260
independent thinkers I mean it is though

982
00:43:08,030 --> 00:43:06,240
without a contingent of people who are

983
00:43:10,670 --> 00:43:08,040
skeptical of mainstream perspectives and

984
00:43:12,710 --> 00:43:10,680
government actions we are just eating up

985
00:43:15,290 --> 00:43:12,720
establishment talking points to me it's

986
00:43:18,589 --> 00:43:15,300
the definition of independent thought if

987
00:43:20,450 --> 00:43:18,599
conspiracies are a threat or something

988
00:43:22,550 --> 00:43:20,460
dangerous I guess I would ask how they

989
00:43:24,530 --> 00:43:22,560
should be dealt with because is it not

990
00:43:26,870 --> 00:43:24,540
more dangerous to not have a space

991
00:43:29,930 --> 00:43:26,880
reserved for counterpoints and being

992
00:43:32,270 --> 00:43:29,940
critical of the state

993
00:43:35,270 --> 00:43:32,280
well you're making a good point and I

994
00:43:38,630 --> 00:43:35,280
appreciate the analogy to new age

995
00:43:40,970 --> 00:43:38,640
because I am frequently a defender of

996
00:43:43,430 --> 00:43:40,980
new age culture I apply the term new age

997
00:43:46,730 --> 00:43:43,440
to myself I describe to age

998
00:43:49,870 --> 00:43:46,740
as a radically ecumenical culture of

999
00:43:54,290 --> 00:43:49,880
therapeutic spirituality so I push back

1000
00:43:57,170 --> 00:43:54,300
on the mainstream use of the term new

1001
00:43:59,569 --> 00:43:57,180
age as a kind of epithet and I think

1002
00:44:01,849 --> 00:43:59,579
your point in that regard is well taken

1003
00:44:04,190 --> 00:44:01,859
and the reason I said this is a hot

1004
00:44:05,870 --> 00:44:04,200
issue for me is literally I was just

1005
00:44:08,109 --> 00:44:05,880
speaking about this yesterday on a

1006
00:44:13,270 --> 00:44:08,119
podcast with Connor Habib

1007
00:44:16,309 --> 00:44:13,280
as I urge people not to

1008
00:44:18,470 --> 00:44:16,319
completely swallow the hand-me-down

1009
00:44:21,349 --> 00:44:18,480
narratives that they get from skepticism

1010
00:44:24,349 --> 00:44:21,359
of a professional sort or that they get

1011
00:44:26,630 --> 00:44:24,359
from the manner in which most mainstream

1012
00:44:29,450 --> 00:44:26,640
media covers psychical research which I

1013
00:44:33,290 --> 00:44:29,460
care about it may behoove me

1014
00:44:37,370 --> 00:44:33,300
to revisit some of my own rejectionism

1015
00:44:40,010 --> 00:44:37,380
of what I call conspiracist culture and

1016
00:44:43,010 --> 00:44:40,020
I am willing to do that if I didn't do

1017
00:44:46,490 --> 00:44:43,020
that I'd be violating some of my own

1018
00:44:50,150 --> 00:44:46,500
ground principles I have my concerns I'm

1019
00:44:52,609 --> 00:44:50,160
very concerned about the prospect of a

1020
00:44:56,750 --> 00:44:52,619
new satanic Panic I'm very concerned

1021
00:44:59,210 --> 00:44:56,760
about violence against accused witches

1022
00:45:03,050 --> 00:44:59,220
around the world I'm very concerned

1023
00:45:04,970 --> 00:45:03,060
about ancient prejudicial tropes kind of

1024
00:45:07,910 --> 00:45:04,980
getting dressed up in new language so I

1025
00:45:11,630 --> 00:45:07,920
have all those concerns but I also honor

1026
00:45:13,150 --> 00:45:11,640
what you just said about your efforts to

1027
00:45:15,950 --> 00:45:13,160
elevate

1028
00:45:19,190 --> 00:45:15,960
conspiracist culture because there is

1029
00:45:23,390 --> 00:45:19,200
something there that intersects with my

1030
00:45:26,030 --> 00:45:23,400
own efforts to Elevate New Age culture

1031
00:45:28,790 --> 00:45:26,040
which I am attached to which I am a part

1032
00:45:32,150 --> 00:45:28,800
of but which I am also critical of so if

1033
00:45:35,210 --> 00:45:32,160
I'm asking people to kind of drop the

1034
00:45:39,050 --> 00:45:35,220
blinders drop the prejudices it behooves

1035
00:45:42,530 --> 00:45:39,060
me to take my own medicine so I'm trying

1036
00:45:44,809 --> 00:45:42,540
to engage that in a real and sincere way

1037
00:45:49,069 --> 00:45:44,819
I love it I thought that would be the

1038
00:45:51,109 --> 00:45:49,079
common ground for us for sure and I get

1039
00:45:53,809 --> 00:45:51,119
what you're saying and I also have a lot

1040
00:45:56,690 --> 00:45:53,819
of those same concerns I don't like when

1041
00:45:58,970 --> 00:45:56,700
a person loses their mind and then goes

1042
00:46:01,490 --> 00:45:58,980
and does something terrible which isn't

1043
00:46:03,109 --> 00:46:01,500
even directed at Power how often right

1044
00:46:06,410 --> 00:46:03,119
you know right are these things just

1045
00:46:09,470 --> 00:46:06,420
directed at every day folks and then the

1046
00:46:11,630 --> 00:46:09,480
news loves to latch on to what they were

1047
00:46:14,329 --> 00:46:11,640
looking at online and who they were

1048
00:46:16,370 --> 00:46:14,339
following and it's just like like you

1049
00:46:19,069 --> 00:46:16,380
know obviously it hurts my soul a little

1050
00:46:21,710 --> 00:46:19,079
bit that they would be in my Camp to a

1051
00:46:24,109 --> 00:46:21,720
degree but I would also say that to put

1052
00:46:26,390 --> 00:46:24,119
another point on this is the term

1053
00:46:29,589 --> 00:46:26,400
conspiracy theory it's pretty well known

1054
00:46:34,190 --> 00:46:29,599
that it was popularized by the CIA

1055
00:46:37,190 --> 00:46:34,200
to get people to uh not be so critical

1056
00:46:39,890 --> 00:46:37,200
of of the of the system it was kind of a

1057
00:46:42,710 --> 00:46:39,900
pejorative astigmatization of those who

1058
00:46:45,770 --> 00:46:42,720
challenged at the time it was uh the JFK

1059
00:46:48,290 --> 00:46:45,780
thing but there's a pretty good bunch of

1060
00:46:50,030 --> 00:46:48,300
literature about this that it was kind

1061
00:46:52,190 --> 00:46:50,040
of crafted so that you could say oh

1062
00:46:54,050 --> 00:46:52,200
that's just a conspiracy that's those

1063
00:46:56,750 --> 00:46:54,060
people are conspiracy theorists don't

1064
00:46:58,870 --> 00:46:56,760
even look at that and you have a neat

1065
00:47:02,569 --> 00:46:58,880
regular people have a knee-jerk reaction

1066
00:47:05,329 --> 00:47:02,579
to not go down those paths but when I

1067
00:47:08,270 --> 00:47:05,339
think about that campaign I think about

1068
00:47:09,710 --> 00:47:08,280
the the same way witches and occultists

1069
00:47:12,770 --> 00:47:09,720
are marginalized groups I think

1070
00:47:15,530 --> 00:47:12,780
conspiracy theorists are also kind of on

1071
00:47:17,450 --> 00:47:15,540
the outside and share the common Bond of

1072
00:47:19,430 --> 00:47:17,460
those who are demonized or at least

1073
00:47:22,190 --> 00:47:19,440
dismissed by The Establishment because

1074
00:47:24,410 --> 00:47:22,200
of unpopular opinions they hold which

1075
00:47:26,569 --> 00:47:24,420
are based on data points you know which

1076
00:47:28,250 --> 00:47:26,579
is an occultist they have their data

1077
00:47:30,290 --> 00:47:28,260
points the kind of mind stuff we've been

1078
00:47:31,970 --> 00:47:30,300
talking about conspiracy theorists have

1079
00:47:34,790 --> 00:47:31,980
some data points too

1080
00:47:37,010 --> 00:47:34,800
yeah I'm open to that I'm open to that

1081
00:47:40,490 --> 00:47:37,020
and the part of what you said that I

1082
00:47:44,930 --> 00:47:40,500
want to underline is that

1083
00:47:48,770 --> 00:47:44,940
we have to be sure that we are directing

1084
00:47:52,130 --> 00:47:48,780
uh our scrutiny our criticisms our

1085
00:47:54,710 --> 00:47:52,140
energies towards people who hold actual

1086
00:47:56,990 --> 00:47:54,720
power yeah not the librarian who wears a

1087
00:48:00,170 --> 00:47:57,000
pentagram you know who could be any one

1088
00:48:02,750 --> 00:48:00,180
of our best friends but towards those

1089
00:48:04,490 --> 00:48:02,760
forces that hold actual power so in this

1090
00:48:06,829 --> 00:48:04,500
country for example

1091
00:48:09,170 --> 00:48:06,839
almost everybody agrees that our Health

1092
00:48:11,690 --> 00:48:09,180
Care system is in a kind of shambles

1093
00:48:14,930 --> 00:48:11,700
it's wildly expensive it's fueled by

1094
00:48:18,410 --> 00:48:14,940
over billing we can't seem to make any

1095
00:48:20,450 --> 00:48:18,420
improvements and there are all kinds of

1096
00:48:22,130 --> 00:48:20,460
different policy possibilities that

1097
00:48:23,750 --> 00:48:22,140
could improve health care for people in

1098
00:48:26,170 --> 00:48:23,760
this country some go in a more free

1099
00:48:28,309 --> 00:48:26,180
market Direction some go into more

1100
00:48:32,450 --> 00:48:28,319
governmental Direction

1101
00:48:35,930 --> 00:48:32,460
I'm interested in what works and yet

1102
00:48:38,030 --> 00:48:35,940
this stalemate is persistent we can't

1103
00:48:40,730 --> 00:48:38,040
get in front of pharmaceutical prices

1104
00:48:44,510 --> 00:48:40,740
when somebody needs insulin or something

1105
00:48:47,089 --> 00:48:44,520
like that we can't get in front of fraud

1106
00:48:49,190 --> 00:48:47,099
in medical billing which is wild and

1107
00:48:50,450 --> 00:48:49,200
which probably fuels some of the

1108
00:48:52,849 --> 00:48:50,460
inflation that we're currently

1109
00:48:54,050 --> 00:48:52,859
experiencing especially coming out of

1110
00:48:56,630 --> 00:48:54,060
the lockdown

1111
00:49:00,050 --> 00:48:56,640
I want to be sure that we're directing

1112
00:49:04,069 --> 00:49:00,060
our umbrage where it belongs that

1113
00:49:06,349 --> 00:49:04,079
powerful organizations rather than at uh

1114
00:49:08,569 --> 00:49:06,359
individuals you know who just might be

1115
00:49:10,730 --> 00:49:08,579
out of step with the mainstream which I

1116
00:49:13,910 --> 00:49:10,740
applaud and I don't want to see those

1117
00:49:15,650 --> 00:49:13,920
people targeted or victimized yes and

1118
00:49:17,089 --> 00:49:15,660
that we are totally in agreement so I'm

1119
00:49:18,410 --> 00:49:17,099
glad we did talk about that I was a

1120
00:49:20,089 --> 00:49:18,420
little on the fence am I going to bring

1121
00:49:22,910 --> 00:49:20,099
this up am I gonna I'm really glad you

1122
00:49:24,589 --> 00:49:22,920
did I'm really glad you did and um and

1123
00:49:27,829 --> 00:49:24,599
I'm sitting with it I'm sitting with it

1124
00:49:29,990 --> 00:49:27,839
yeah fair and let's talk a little bit

1125
00:49:31,730 --> 00:49:30,000
more about UFOs because we kind of

1126
00:49:34,010 --> 00:49:31,740
glossed over that but you do write about

1127
00:49:36,109 --> 00:49:34,020
Jacques ballet and his perspective a

1128
00:49:38,630 --> 00:49:36,119
fair amount and I get the impression

1129
00:49:42,290 --> 00:49:38,640
that the association between magic or

1130
00:49:45,410 --> 00:49:42,300
the occult and UFOs is getting stronger

1131
00:49:47,930 --> 00:49:45,420
that will relate more fair yeah I think

1132
00:49:49,309 --> 00:49:47,940
they relate more to Consciousness or the

1133
00:49:51,890 --> 00:49:49,319
Paranormal than they do to something

1134
00:49:53,329 --> 00:49:51,900
like an Intergalactic Airline I guess

1135
00:49:55,790 --> 00:49:53,339
what are your thoughts about that

1136
00:49:57,650 --> 00:49:55,800
overlap and it being maybe the leading

1137
00:49:59,930 --> 00:49:57,660
model given the alternative options of

1138
00:50:02,270 --> 00:49:59,940
what these things in the sky are

1139
00:50:04,609 --> 00:50:02,280
well Jacques work has been an influence

1140
00:50:05,809 --> 00:50:04,619
on me and Jacques has pioneered the

1141
00:50:07,849 --> 00:50:05,819
perspective

1142
00:50:10,670 --> 00:50:07,859
well maybe not pioneered but certainly

1143
00:50:16,430 --> 00:50:10,680
popularized the perspective that

1144
00:50:20,750 --> 00:50:16,440
the inter-dimensional thesis for UFOs

1145
00:50:23,270 --> 00:50:20,760
May cover more bases than the ET thesis

1146
00:50:26,089 --> 00:50:23,280
it doesn't muscle out the ET thesis it's

1147
00:50:28,490 --> 00:50:26,099
not an either or kind of situation which

1148
00:50:30,589 --> 00:50:28,500
is another problem that we get into in

1149
00:50:33,410 --> 00:50:30,599
our culture we have this magic bullet

1150
00:50:35,809 --> 00:50:33,420
kind of thinking that if we identify one

1151
00:50:37,730 --> 00:50:35,819
thing that seems to be valid that must

1152
00:50:40,790 --> 00:50:37,740
be the answer and there can be of course

1153
00:50:42,829 --> 00:50:40,800
a complexity of things going on as I

1154
00:50:46,250 --> 00:50:42,839
think occurs with the placebo response

1155
00:50:49,790 --> 00:50:46,260
for example so

1156
00:50:52,730 --> 00:50:49,800
I'm hugely interested in the

1157
00:50:55,630 --> 00:50:52,740
interdimensional thesis for UFOs because

1158
00:50:58,849 --> 00:50:55,640
it resolves the question of the

1159
00:51:01,130 --> 00:50:58,859
unfathomable distances that a craft

1160
00:51:04,130 --> 00:51:01,140
would have to travel without taking that

1161
00:51:06,410 --> 00:51:04,140
question off the table but it explains

1162
00:51:11,089 --> 00:51:06,420
some of this phenomena in a way that

1163
00:51:13,490 --> 00:51:11,099
relates at least to the data and the

1164
00:51:15,829 --> 00:51:13,500
implications of the data that we've

1165
00:51:18,710 --> 00:51:15,839
gathered in the hard Sciences over the

1166
00:51:21,109 --> 00:51:18,720
past 80 90 years about a perceptual

1167
00:51:22,849 --> 00:51:21,119
basis of reality which again doesn't

1168
00:51:24,950 --> 00:51:22,859
mean that it's just some sort of a

1169
00:51:27,589 --> 00:51:24,960
imaginary thought form but it could be

1170
00:51:29,650 --> 00:51:27,599
the psyche gleaning things that we're

1171
00:51:33,290 --> 00:51:29,660
not able through our ordinary

1172
00:51:36,370 --> 00:51:33,300
instrumentation to get access to all the

1173
00:51:41,030 --> 00:51:36,380
time that starts to bring the discussion

1174
00:51:42,710 --> 00:51:41,040
closer between UFOs and the question of

1175
00:51:47,569 --> 00:51:42,720
the occult I've always described the

1176
00:51:49,430 --> 00:51:47,579
occult as belief in or a wager that

1177
00:51:52,910 --> 00:51:49,440
there exists

1178
00:51:55,730 --> 00:51:52,920
another dimension of existence whose

1179
00:51:57,910 --> 00:51:55,740
effects can be felt on and through us

1180
00:52:02,630 --> 00:51:57,920
that's part of the same conversation

1181
00:52:04,609 --> 00:52:02,640
that Jacques helped to instigate through

1182
00:52:07,549 --> 00:52:04,619
the popularization of the

1183
00:52:09,589 --> 00:52:07,559
interdimensional thesis of UFOs these

1184
00:52:12,049 --> 00:52:09,599
things really start to converge and

1185
00:52:14,270 --> 00:52:12,059
that's very very exciting to me because

1186
00:52:16,670 --> 00:52:14,280
with the main streaming of the UFO

1187
00:52:19,190 --> 00:52:16,680
thesis and it's more mainstream today

1188
00:52:21,890 --> 00:52:19,200
than I could have imagined five six

1189
00:52:25,849 --> 00:52:21,900
seven years ago could have imagined it

1190
00:52:28,370 --> 00:52:25,859
is so absolutely on the public agenda in

1191
00:52:31,490 --> 00:52:28,380
a way that's just remarkable

1192
00:52:34,490 --> 00:52:31,500
that's going to help I think crack open

1193
00:52:37,190 --> 00:52:34,500
the door to further and deeper inquiries

1194
00:52:39,710 --> 00:52:37,200
into psychical phenomena that gives

1195
00:52:41,390 --> 00:52:39,720
people who are interested in UFOs and

1196
00:52:44,210 --> 00:52:41,400
who are interested in the occult or the

1197
00:52:46,609 --> 00:52:44,220
mystical or the perceptual a lot to talk

1198
00:52:48,829 --> 00:52:46,619
about so those conversations are

1199
00:52:52,010 --> 00:52:48,839
converging and that's part of the spirit

1200
00:52:54,230 --> 00:52:52,020
in which I wrote the book yes and it is

1201
00:52:56,210 --> 00:52:54,240
exciting to see that in the mainstream

1202
00:52:58,150 --> 00:52:56,220
to see a New York Times article about

1203
00:53:01,010 --> 00:52:58,160
stuff to see

1204
00:53:04,609 --> 00:53:01,020
ex-military men out there being like

1205
00:53:06,290 --> 00:53:04,619
I've seen stuff from the cockpit of my

1206
00:53:08,150 --> 00:53:06,300
jet that I couldn't explain to see

1207
00:53:10,609 --> 00:53:08,160
footage coming out in the Pentagon not

1208
00:53:12,650 --> 00:53:10,619
being so quick to just dismiss it and

1209
00:53:14,210 --> 00:53:12,660
sweep it under the rug that's great when

1210
00:53:15,950 --> 00:53:14,220
I was younger I really thought like

1211
00:53:18,290 --> 00:53:15,960
disclosure is going to be this one day

1212
00:53:20,150 --> 00:53:18,300
it happens and then now we just know all

1213
00:53:23,329 --> 00:53:20,160
the secrets clearly that was a little

1214
00:53:25,970 --> 00:53:23,339
naive but going back to kind of my

1215
00:53:29,210 --> 00:53:25,980
conspiracy mindset I worry a little bit

1216
00:53:31,670 --> 00:53:29,220
about the way it's Being Framed or how

1217
00:53:34,670 --> 00:53:31,680
the mainstream establishment is going to

1218
00:53:37,250 --> 00:53:34,680
frame this thing up it's kind of through

1219
00:53:39,770 --> 00:53:37,260
a military lens it's kind of through a

1220
00:53:42,530 --> 00:53:39,780
is this a threat to National Security

1221
00:53:44,690 --> 00:53:42,540
lens and really when you get into the

1222
00:53:47,270 --> 00:53:44,700
literature it seems ancient it seems

1223
00:53:49,910 --> 00:53:47,280
like this something has always been kind

1224
00:53:52,069 --> 00:53:49,920
of with humanity and

1225
00:53:56,510 --> 00:53:52,079
I just worry about

1226
00:53:58,970 --> 00:53:56,520
it being twisted around to somehow prop

1227
00:54:00,470 --> 00:53:58,980
up the budget of the Pentagon or

1228
00:54:02,930 --> 00:54:00,480
something like hey we need more money to

1229
00:54:04,250 --> 00:54:02,940
solve this problem I don't know but be

1230
00:54:05,990 --> 00:54:04,260
careful what you wish for you know I

1231
00:54:07,309 --> 00:54:06,000
thought I wanted disclosure now I'm

1232
00:54:10,250 --> 00:54:07,319
getting it and it's like I don't really

1233
00:54:12,710 --> 00:54:10,260
like how this is being served to us

1234
00:54:14,329 --> 00:54:12,720
well it's interesting there are so many

1235
00:54:18,530 --> 00:54:14,339
different players

1236
00:54:21,890 --> 00:54:18,540
within the UFO Paradigm and

1237
00:54:24,710 --> 00:54:21,900
we have to assume I think that there are

1238
00:54:27,470 --> 00:54:24,720
also a complexity of motives now some of

1239
00:54:29,870 --> 00:54:27,480
the people within the UFO Paradigm who I

1240
00:54:31,370 --> 00:54:29,880
know and who have made the effort

1241
00:54:33,109 --> 00:54:31,380
towards disclosure like you were

1242
00:54:35,569 --> 00:54:33,119
mentioning the New York Times piece by

1243
00:54:37,930 --> 00:54:35,579
Leslie Keane Ralph Blumenthal Helene

1244
00:54:41,030 --> 00:54:37,940
Cooper all of whom I think the world of

1245
00:54:42,230 --> 00:54:41,040
and I know Leslie personally and you

1246
00:54:45,349 --> 00:54:42,240
know we've talked over some of this

1247
00:54:48,349 --> 00:54:45,359
recently I think there are ethics and

1248
00:54:49,970 --> 00:54:48,359
motives are absolutely impeccable and

1249
00:54:52,490 --> 00:54:49,980
the work that they've done is impeccable

1250
00:54:55,309 --> 00:54:52,500
and I think that there are some figures

1251
00:54:56,990 --> 00:54:55,319
in the government who are pro-disclosure

1252
00:54:59,930 --> 00:54:57,000
and who feel that they can get the

1253
00:55:01,910 --> 00:54:59,940
greatest hearing and funding for some of

1254
00:55:04,849 --> 00:55:01,920
these efforts by Framing it in the very

1255
00:55:07,730 --> 00:55:04,859
military terms that you were just

1256
00:55:09,589 --> 00:55:07,740
describing there are whistleblowers and

1257
00:55:11,569 --> 00:55:09,599
there are also people who for whatever

1258
00:55:13,910 --> 00:55:11,579
reason and I've never been able to fully

1259
00:55:16,730 --> 00:55:13,920
get at or understand this

1260
00:55:18,829 --> 00:55:16,740
who want to squelch information who

1261
00:55:22,910 --> 00:55:18,839
don't want this information to be out

1262
00:55:26,270 --> 00:55:22,920
there and they have a variety of factors

1263
00:55:28,790 --> 00:55:26,280
driving their activities now we're all

1264
00:55:31,250 --> 00:55:28,800
sitting around waiting for this Pentagon

1265
00:55:33,710 --> 00:55:31,260
report that was supposed to come out I

1266
00:55:36,890 --> 00:55:33,720
guess in October and hasn't come out yet

1267
00:55:39,410 --> 00:55:36,900
that's supposed to be a further study of

1268
00:55:43,910 --> 00:55:39,420
the dod report that came out a couple of

1269
00:55:45,349 --> 00:55:43,920
years ago maybe 18 months ago and

1270
00:55:47,690 --> 00:55:45,359
the reporter in the New York Times

1271
00:55:49,490 --> 00:55:47,700
Julian Barnes had a piece a few months

1272
00:55:52,370 --> 00:55:49,500
back which I jokingly refer to as The

1273
00:55:54,650 --> 00:55:52,380
Empire Strikes Back where he interviewed

1274
00:55:57,049 --> 00:55:54,660
his sources within the dod and they all

1275
00:55:59,089 --> 00:55:57,059
said it's a whole bunch of nothing it's

1276
00:56:02,030 --> 00:55:59,099
space junk it's accidents blah blah it

1277
00:56:03,410 --> 00:56:02,040
was the same old story and one of the

1278
00:56:06,370 --> 00:56:03,420
things that was frustrating about the

1279
00:56:09,410 --> 00:56:06,380
Barnes article is that Keen

1280
00:56:12,230 --> 00:56:09,420
Blumenthal and Cooper were held to very

1281
00:56:14,510 --> 00:56:12,240
very high standards that precluded there

1282
00:56:16,970 --> 00:56:14,520
using Anonymous sources they had to get

1283
00:56:19,370 --> 00:56:16,980
people by name on the record but

1284
00:56:24,349 --> 00:56:19,380
barnes's article was based almost

1285
00:56:27,049 --> 00:56:24,359
completely on Anonymous sources so there

1286
00:56:29,030 --> 00:56:27,059
is a double standard there and I have my

1287
00:56:31,849 --> 00:56:29,040
questions about that now it could just

1288
00:56:35,329 --> 00:56:31,859
be cultural it could be that people

1289
00:56:38,390 --> 00:56:35,339
within mainstream letters are so inured

1290
00:56:40,670 --> 00:56:38,400
to scoff at the UFO thesis that they

1291
00:56:43,490 --> 00:56:40,680
lower their standards for a piece like

1292
00:56:45,710 --> 00:56:43,500
that but regardless there is a

1293
00:56:48,890 --> 00:56:45,720
difference there is a difference and

1294
00:56:50,809 --> 00:56:48,900
this is probably a foreshadowing of

1295
00:56:53,870 --> 00:56:50,819
things to come whereas you were saying

1296
00:56:56,569 --> 00:56:53,880
as a kid one hopes G disclosure is just

1297
00:56:57,829 --> 00:56:56,579
going to come and it's going to be The

1298
00:56:59,329 --> 00:56:57,839
Parting of the clouds and we'll

1299
00:57:02,329 --> 00:56:59,339
understand something

1300
00:57:04,910 --> 00:57:02,339
but likelihood is disclosure is going to

1301
00:57:05,870 --> 00:57:04,920
be very messy very muddled by all kinds

1302
00:57:08,870 --> 00:57:05,880
of different

1303
00:57:11,630 --> 00:57:08,880
motives double standards and other such

1304
00:57:13,309 --> 00:57:11,640
things and this is going to track on for

1305
00:57:15,829 --> 00:57:13,319
some time there may be nothing

1306
00:57:17,390 --> 00:57:15,839
definitive in our generation but I do

1307
00:57:19,309 --> 00:57:17,400
think we have to take a Victory lap for

1308
00:57:23,390 --> 00:57:19,319
the progress that has been made it's

1309
00:57:24,970 --> 00:57:23,400
absolutely real and it's remarkable and

1310
00:57:28,370 --> 00:57:24,980
the public interest

1311
00:57:31,130 --> 00:57:28,380
arguably has never been higher mm-hmm

1312
00:57:33,710 --> 00:57:31,140
yeah it's true it's true I I just

1313
00:57:35,990 --> 00:57:33,720
sometimes I think we we wait for the

1314
00:57:37,430 --> 00:57:36,000
official word and it's like I've seen

1315
00:57:39,290 --> 00:57:37,440
some things and I've talked to enough

1316
00:57:40,490 --> 00:57:39,300
people who have seen some things that I

1317
00:57:42,650 --> 00:57:40,500
don't really

1318
00:57:45,410 --> 00:57:42,660
care that much with the Pentagon things

1319
00:57:47,450 --> 00:57:45,420
about it but at the same time I'd like

1320
00:57:49,490 --> 00:57:47,460
it to be put out there so that maybe

1321
00:57:51,049 --> 00:57:49,500
more friends and family will get on

1322
00:57:53,210 --> 00:57:51,059
board with maybe there's some truth to

1323
00:57:55,130 --> 00:57:53,220
what I've been talking about but that's

1324
00:57:57,829 --> 00:57:55,140
something that they need not necessarily

1325
00:58:00,230 --> 00:57:57,839
what I need or want but another point

1326
00:58:02,089 --> 00:58:00,240
you make about high strangeness that I

1327
00:58:04,790 --> 00:58:02,099
like is you say that the possibility

1328
00:58:06,349 --> 00:58:04,800
that these persistent extraordinary

1329
00:58:08,089 --> 00:58:06,359
events sightings of everything from

1330
00:58:11,150 --> 00:58:08,099
serpents in the water to mysterious

1331
00:58:13,490 --> 00:58:11,160
winged beasts to otherworldly beings to

1332
00:58:15,650 --> 00:58:13,500
gnomes to Bigfoot may be the result of

1333
00:58:18,410 --> 00:58:15,660
perspective and of these things

1334
00:58:20,809 --> 00:58:18,420
intermittently localizing in our reality

1335
00:58:23,930 --> 00:58:20,819
we talked about that a bit but one of my

1336
00:58:26,750 --> 00:58:23,940
Curiosities is what are these mysterious

1337
00:58:29,390 --> 00:58:26,760
winged beasts or gnomes or Pilots of the

1338
00:58:31,490 --> 00:58:29,400
crafts doing when they aren't being seen

1339
00:58:34,490 --> 00:58:31,500
when they aren't as you put it

1340
00:58:36,530 --> 00:58:34,500
localizing in our reality do they mate

1341
00:58:39,049 --> 00:58:36,540
do they have a home do they have a

1342
00:58:41,510 --> 00:58:39,059
reason or even control over when or why

1343
00:58:44,630 --> 00:58:41,520
they're seen like are these temporary

1344
00:58:46,970 --> 00:58:44,640
thought forms made Solid which is one

1345
00:58:50,750 --> 00:58:46,980
perspective a lot of people share or are

1346
00:58:52,970 --> 00:58:50,760
they truly living lives from birth to

1347
00:58:55,250 --> 00:58:52,980
death somewhere else that just sometimes

1348
00:58:58,130 --> 00:58:55,260
bleed over

1349
00:59:00,230 --> 00:58:58,140
my assumption and this is really getting

1350
00:59:02,569 --> 00:59:00,240
into speculative territory because we

1351
00:59:04,430 --> 00:59:02,579
just don't know but my assumption is

1352
00:59:07,690 --> 00:59:04,440
that

1353
00:59:09,349 --> 00:59:07,700
these beings have their own

1354
00:59:10,970 --> 00:59:09,359
lives

1355
00:59:12,589 --> 00:59:10,980
purposes

1356
00:59:16,490 --> 00:59:12,599
life cycles

1357
00:59:18,349 --> 00:59:16,500
they may be experiencing us as anomalies

1358
00:59:20,510 --> 00:59:18,359
um the notion of whether humans exist

1359
00:59:23,809 --> 00:59:20,520
may be a hotly debated Topic in some

1360
00:59:25,670 --> 00:59:23,819
other dimension I like it and you know

1361
00:59:27,589 --> 00:59:25,680
somebody's having this very conversation

1362
00:59:30,650 --> 00:59:27,599
about you know whether you and I

1363
00:59:33,349 --> 00:59:30,660
actually exist or just a fly on the

1364
00:59:35,510 --> 00:59:33,359
windshield or something and

1365
00:59:36,589 --> 00:59:35,520
the physicist Urban Schrodinger when he

1366
00:59:38,750 --> 00:59:36,599
devised his thought experiment

1367
00:59:42,130 --> 00:59:38,760
shreddinger's cat

1368
00:59:44,990 --> 00:59:42,140
made the insistent and airtight case

1369
00:59:47,030 --> 00:59:45,000
that you had to allow for a Dead Alive

1370
00:59:50,210 --> 00:59:47,040
cat you had to allow for these

1371
00:59:53,150 --> 00:59:50,220
simultaneous surreal outcomes and then

1372
00:59:54,470 --> 00:59:53,160
in the 1950s other physicists including

1373
00:59:56,930 --> 00:59:54,480
Hugh Everett

1374
00:59:59,030 --> 00:59:56,940
postulated that you'd have to actually

1375
01:00:01,789 --> 00:59:59,040
allow for an infinite number of cats

1376
01:00:04,670 --> 01:00:01,799
playing out each with its own existence

1377
01:00:06,289 --> 01:00:04,680
and needs and

1378
01:00:10,970 --> 01:00:06,299
to the cat

1379
01:00:13,849 --> 01:00:10,980
the cat is experiencing a singularity

1380
01:00:15,890 --> 01:00:13,859
if you had a craft a spacecraft that was

1381
01:00:20,450 --> 01:00:15,900
moving out of your light speed we say

1382
01:00:23,809 --> 01:00:21,770
Traveler

1383
01:00:26,210 --> 01:00:23,819
well it doesn't slow down from his

1384
01:00:28,490 --> 01:00:26,220
perspective he's just going on with life

1385
01:00:30,890 --> 01:00:28,500
it slows down from our perspective as

1386
01:00:32,630 --> 01:00:30,900
the Observer so we have this very

1387
01:00:34,670 --> 01:00:32,640
different kind of relationship and this

1388
01:00:37,609 --> 01:00:34,680
is literally true you know

1389
01:00:38,990 --> 01:00:37,619
we don't have to postulate an object

1390
01:00:41,690 --> 01:00:39,000
traveling at light speed in fact

1391
01:00:43,910 --> 01:00:41,700
astronauts in our own era obviously

1392
01:00:46,630 --> 01:00:43,920
moving nowhere near the velocity of

1393
01:00:49,069 --> 01:00:46,640
light do in fact experience minute

1394
01:00:51,470 --> 01:00:49,079
reductions in the aging process it's

1395
01:00:54,770 --> 01:00:51,480
real it's measurable this is no longer

1396
01:00:56,390 --> 01:00:54,780
theoretical they don't experience time

1397
01:00:58,730 --> 01:00:56,400
slowing down I mean of course time would

1398
01:01:00,349 --> 01:00:58,740
be slowing down too minutely for them to

1399
01:01:02,690 --> 01:01:00,359
really experience it but we can easily

1400
01:01:05,750 --> 01:01:02,700
extrapolate that

1401
01:01:08,750 --> 01:01:05,760
the guy in the Imagine spacecraft

1402
01:01:11,089 --> 01:01:08,760
doesn't experience time slowing down

1403
01:01:14,089 --> 01:01:11,099
it's I The Observer from Earth who

1404
01:01:16,190 --> 01:01:14,099
experience that effect that phenomena

1405
01:01:18,589 --> 01:01:16,200
because of our differences in

1406
01:01:21,950 --> 01:01:18,599
perspective and in surrounding

1407
01:01:24,470 --> 01:01:21,960
conditions so from that I would assume

1408
01:01:26,329 --> 01:01:24,480
that the objects being observed although

1409
01:01:28,849 --> 01:01:26,339
it doesn't preclude other possibilities

1410
01:01:31,250 --> 01:01:28,859
like materialized thought forms as you

1411
01:01:33,349 --> 01:01:31,260
were eluding or call them topaz or

1412
01:01:38,030 --> 01:01:33,359
egregor's or what have you it doesn't

1413
01:01:39,349 --> 01:01:38,040
preclude that but it seems to me that if

1414
01:01:41,450 --> 01:01:39,359
we were talking in terms of an

1415
01:01:43,849 --> 01:01:41,460
interdimensional being

1416
01:01:47,870 --> 01:01:43,859
that being is having its own experiences

1417
01:01:50,589 --> 01:01:47,880
and that may include us as anomalies who

1418
01:01:53,809 --> 01:01:50,599
existence is doubted

1419
01:01:57,010 --> 01:01:53,819
I like it yes a lot of these stories

1420
01:02:00,049 --> 01:01:57,020
I've heard where people do see a little

1421
01:02:02,809 --> 01:02:00,059
green man or a gnome or something weird

1422
01:02:05,630 --> 01:02:02,819
it's like when they see it it turns

1423
01:02:07,730 --> 01:02:05,640
around and it realizes it's been seen

1424
01:02:09,829 --> 01:02:07,740
and it has a bit of shock and surprise

1425
01:02:11,870 --> 01:02:09,839
on its own face it's like oh [\h__\h] you

1426
01:02:13,549 --> 01:02:11,880
see me I gotta fix this right so I don't

1427
01:02:15,710 --> 01:02:13,559
know if they have a lot of control over

1428
01:02:18,829 --> 01:02:15,720
when they are seen they seem to be able

1429
01:02:21,530 --> 01:02:18,839
to go back to an unseen state of their

1430
01:02:23,210 --> 01:02:21,540
own volition but yeah I I wonder about

1431
01:02:25,010 --> 01:02:23,220
that and your comment about humans being

1432
01:02:27,950 --> 01:02:25,020
a hotly debated topic somewhere else

1433
01:02:29,809 --> 01:02:27,960
reminds me of a story that's fuzzy in my

1434
01:02:33,109 --> 01:02:29,819
mind I believe it was a Yuri Geller

1435
01:02:35,690 --> 01:02:33,119
story where he was remote viewing some

1436
01:02:38,089 --> 01:02:35,700
bass that had non-human

1437
01:02:40,549 --> 01:02:38,099
creatures walking around operating in

1438
01:02:43,370 --> 01:02:40,559
there and he pulled out when it seemed

1439
01:02:45,349 --> 01:02:43,380
like they saw him that they noticed they

1440
01:02:47,809 --> 01:02:45,359
were being watched it might not be Yuri

1441
01:02:49,970 --> 01:02:47,819
Geller but some prominent remote viewer

1442
01:02:52,849 --> 01:02:49,980
had that experience and it made me think

1443
01:02:54,770 --> 01:02:52,859
that that could be the script flip on

1444
01:02:57,710 --> 01:02:54,780
what we see out in the woods sometime

1445
01:03:00,230 --> 01:02:57,720
and uh Gordon white a guy who I know you

1446
01:03:02,630 --> 01:03:00,240
know a body of mine he has made the

1447
01:03:06,349 --> 01:03:02,640
point to me like if remote viewing is

1448
01:03:08,870 --> 01:03:06,359
real and ESP is real who's to say it's

1449
01:03:11,349 --> 01:03:08,880
tied to this planet if there's other

1450
01:03:13,910 --> 01:03:11,359
life out there and a billion other

1451
01:03:17,030 --> 01:03:13,920
planets and systems

1452
01:03:20,990 --> 01:03:17,040
maybe occasionally what we experience is

1453
01:03:24,049 --> 01:03:21,000
high strangeness Freudian type things is

1454
01:03:26,329 --> 01:03:24,059
actually the same cognitive abilities we

1455
01:03:29,030 --> 01:03:26,339
seem to know we have coming from

1456
01:03:30,829 --> 01:03:29,040
somewhere that we don't know exists

1457
01:03:34,329 --> 01:03:30,839
it's interesting

1458
01:03:37,910 --> 01:03:34,339
in encounter experiences the other being

1459
01:03:42,349 --> 01:03:37,920
may be as Disturbed

1460
01:03:44,329 --> 01:03:42,359
by us as we are by them yes and

1461
01:03:46,970 --> 01:03:44,339
um maybe Bigfoot doesn't want to be seen

1462
01:03:48,770 --> 01:03:46,980
and there are actually very good reasons

1463
01:03:51,770 --> 01:03:48,780
why Bigfoot would not want to be seen

1464
01:03:53,750 --> 01:03:51,780
and we hear a twig snap in the night and

1465
01:03:55,370 --> 01:03:53,760
we think what's that you know well the

1466
01:03:57,829 --> 01:03:55,380
other being may be having that same

1467
01:04:00,289 --> 01:03:57,839
experience

1468
01:04:02,750 --> 01:04:00,299
we have a great deal of trouble from

1469
01:04:05,569 --> 01:04:02,760
time to time even in this digitized

1470
01:04:08,870 --> 01:04:05,579
interconnected World understanding

1471
01:04:11,089 --> 01:04:08,880
figures from other cultures and you

1472
01:04:12,530 --> 01:04:11,099
would think by this point we're all at

1473
01:04:14,870 --> 01:04:12,540
least familiar enough with one another

1474
01:04:17,150 --> 01:04:14,880
to grasp

1475
01:04:19,130 --> 01:04:17,160
what meaning is being communicated or

1476
01:04:22,010 --> 01:04:19,140
what somebody is trying to get across

1477
01:04:24,470 --> 01:04:22,020
people don't even agree on an event that

1478
01:04:26,750 --> 01:04:24,480
was witnessed yesterday you know five

1479
01:04:28,970 --> 01:04:26,760
people can witness the same event and

1480
01:04:30,770 --> 01:04:28,980
have completely different takeaways and

1481
01:04:33,289 --> 01:04:30,780
completely different emotions around it

1482
01:04:35,690 --> 01:04:33,299
how much more so would that lack of

1483
01:04:37,010 --> 01:04:35,700
understanding be heightened if we were

1484
01:04:39,049 --> 01:04:37,020
dealing with a being from another

1485
01:04:41,450 --> 01:04:39,059
dimension another intersection of time

1486
01:04:44,470 --> 01:04:41,460
so that the problems of understanding

1487
01:04:49,190 --> 01:04:44,480
and motive could be vast

1488
01:04:51,410 --> 01:04:49,200
yeah provocative provocative and I did

1489
01:04:54,230 --> 01:04:51,420
read Miracle Club but I wanted you to

1490
01:04:58,370 --> 01:04:54,240
touch on it because I think it's such an

1491
01:05:01,430 --> 01:04:58,380
interesting idea and I'm curious if

1492
01:05:03,650 --> 01:05:01,440
since it's been written there are any

1493
01:05:05,750 --> 01:05:03,660
results that have sprung out of it and

1494
01:05:07,730 --> 01:05:05,760
just tell the people kind of what the

1495
01:05:10,069 --> 01:05:07,740
premise was for that and and let us know

1496
01:05:11,510 --> 01:05:10,079
if anything has come out of pushing that

1497
01:05:13,490 --> 01:05:11,520
out into the world

1498
01:05:15,049 --> 01:05:13,500
well Miracle Club was also a very

1499
01:05:17,930 --> 01:05:15,059
special book to me because that was my

1500
01:05:20,390 --> 01:05:17,940
first explicitly practical book I write

1501
01:05:22,190 --> 01:05:20,400
as both a historian and a practical

1502
01:05:24,530 --> 01:05:22,200
Seeker I call myself a believing

1503
01:05:26,210 --> 01:05:24,540
historian my first two books occult

1504
01:05:28,849 --> 01:05:26,220
America one simple idea were pretty

1505
01:05:31,510 --> 01:05:28,859
straightforward works of History

1506
01:05:34,849 --> 01:05:31,520
but Miracle club which came out in 2018

1507
01:05:36,650 --> 01:05:34,859
was the first time I sort of stood up on

1508
01:05:38,210 --> 01:05:36,660
the soapbox and said well this is what I

1509
01:05:41,270 --> 01:05:38,220
believe this is what I practice this is

1510
01:05:44,450 --> 01:05:41,280
what I work with and in many ways it's

1511
01:05:47,390 --> 01:05:44,460
an exploration of new thought or mind

1512
01:05:50,569 --> 01:05:47,400
metaphysics but I also in that book

1513
01:05:53,270 --> 01:05:50,579
really made an effort to describe a

1514
01:05:56,329 --> 01:05:53,280
theory of what's happening when thoughts

1515
01:05:58,190 --> 01:05:56,339
produce actual consequences when they

1516
01:06:00,109 --> 01:05:58,200
concretize in the world in ways that go

1517
01:06:02,690 --> 01:06:00,119
beyond the cognitive

1518
01:06:05,329 --> 01:06:02,700
and the motor skill

1519
01:06:07,910 --> 01:06:05,339
with which we're familiar

1520
01:06:09,829 --> 01:06:07,920
in the final chapter of that book I

1521
01:06:12,650 --> 01:06:09,839
worked with the interdimensional thesis

1522
01:06:15,770 --> 01:06:12,660
I talk about why I use the word select

1523
01:06:18,710 --> 01:06:15,780
versus manifest and I try to really get

1524
01:06:20,510 --> 01:06:18,720
into the inner guts of what might be

1525
01:06:23,089 --> 01:06:20,520
going on

1526
01:06:25,010 --> 01:06:23,099
if my thesis is right that thoughts are

1527
01:06:27,069 --> 01:06:25,020
causative so that was a very special

1528
01:06:29,930 --> 01:06:27,079
book for me because it was the first

1529
01:06:33,170 --> 01:06:29,940
directly practical book that I ever

1530
01:06:35,210 --> 01:06:33,180
wrote and if I'm remembering correctly

1531
01:06:37,609 --> 01:06:35,220
it's been a couple of years but there's

1532
01:06:40,490 --> 01:06:37,619
a specific time of day that you suggest

1533
01:06:42,829 --> 01:06:40,500
to the reader hey why don't we all use

1534
01:06:45,650 --> 01:06:42,839
this time of day to think about positive

1535
01:06:49,549 --> 01:06:45,660
thoughts and see what happens

1536
01:06:52,970 --> 01:06:49,559
that's right at 3 P.M Eastern each day I

1537
01:06:55,609 --> 01:06:52,980
enter into a few moments of basically

1538
01:06:58,010 --> 01:06:55,619
holding a wish of private reflection and

1539
01:06:59,690 --> 01:06:58,020
I invite people to do that with me that

1540
01:07:01,730 --> 01:06:59,700
is all it takes to be a member of the

1541
01:07:03,890 --> 01:07:01,740
miracle Club the miracle Club is a title

1542
01:07:06,049 --> 01:07:03,900
that has historical roots in the

1543
01:07:08,890 --> 01:07:06,059
theosophy movement it was a small Salon

1544
01:07:12,049 --> 01:07:08,900
of occult Seekers that eventually

1545
01:07:14,150 --> 01:07:12,059
mushroomed into the theosophical society

1546
01:07:17,750 --> 01:07:14,160
and I honor them and these people are

1547
01:07:19,849 --> 01:07:17,760
heroes to me and to gain membership in

1548
01:07:22,190 --> 01:07:19,859
the miracle Club it's just as simple as

1549
01:07:24,770 --> 01:07:22,200
wanting to be a member and if you want

1550
01:07:26,870 --> 01:07:24,780
to participate in a group activity each

1551
01:07:29,450 --> 01:07:26,880
day it's 3 P.M Eastern you can

1552
01:07:32,329 --> 01:07:29,460
participate in it with me I take a few

1553
01:07:33,710 --> 01:07:32,339
moments to hold Reflections for myself

1554
01:07:36,349 --> 01:07:33,720
for other people

1555
01:07:38,930 --> 01:07:36,359
hold a wish basically you can do it in

1556
01:07:41,450 --> 01:07:38,940
an elevator while you're driving while

1557
01:07:43,930 --> 01:07:41,460
you're working just take a break

1558
01:07:46,910 --> 01:07:43,940
that's when we meet open to everybody

1559
01:07:48,710 --> 01:07:46,920
very cool hopefully we add some new

1560
01:07:50,029 --> 01:07:48,720
members and you're clearly seasoned

1561
01:07:52,370 --> 01:07:50,039
because you would have done that about

1562
01:07:54,349 --> 01:07:52,380
an hour ago in the middle of this very

1563
01:07:56,770 --> 01:07:54,359
interview I think you'd be surprised I

1564
01:08:00,049 --> 01:07:56,780
have paused interviews

1565
01:08:02,210 --> 01:08:00,059
to do it but nowadays I'm I'm a little

1566
01:08:04,370 --> 01:08:02,220
more respecting of the medium that I'm

1567
01:08:07,910 --> 01:08:04,380
part of but I do do it just about every

1568
01:08:11,270 --> 01:08:07,920
day at 3 pm Eastern awesome well that is

1569
01:08:13,910 --> 01:08:11,280
very cool and Mitch I envy your work

1570
01:08:17,150 --> 01:08:13,920
ethic you've done some really important

1571
01:08:19,430 --> 01:08:17,160
work and you've brought Spirit back to

1572
01:08:22,070 --> 01:08:19,440
the minds of men and I salute you for it

1573
01:08:24,410 --> 01:08:22,080
I think people know how to get books but

1574
01:08:26,630 --> 01:08:24,420
remind them of some of your favorite

1575
01:08:29,570 --> 01:08:26,640
Works your website and anything else you

1576
01:08:32,209 --> 01:08:29,580
got coming down the pike sure my website

1577
01:08:33,950 --> 01:08:32,219
is Mitch horowitz.com I'm on Twitter at

1578
01:08:35,689 --> 01:08:33,960
Mitch Horowitz Instagram at Mitch

1579
01:08:37,910 --> 01:08:35,699
horowitz23

1580
01:08:39,890 --> 01:08:37,920
in February I'm teaching a four-part

1581
01:08:42,470 --> 01:08:39,900
online class with the theosophical

1582
01:08:44,930 --> 01:08:42,480
society on parapsychology so if you're

1583
01:08:47,150 --> 01:08:44,940
interested in some of these ideas about

1584
01:08:48,470 --> 01:08:47,160
psychical research precognition some of

1585
01:08:50,269 --> 01:08:48,480
the other things we've been discussing

1586
01:08:53,269 --> 01:08:50,279
that's going to be really exciting

1587
01:08:54,590 --> 01:08:53,279
current book is uncertain places I have

1588
01:08:57,289 --> 01:08:54,600
another book that's relatively new

1589
01:08:59,090 --> 01:08:57,299
called Daydream Believer which is also a

1590
01:09:00,890 --> 01:08:59,100
book that means a lot to me

1591
01:09:03,650 --> 01:09:00,900
which explores some of these questions

1592
01:09:05,390 --> 01:09:03,660
of Mind metaphysics including how to

1593
01:09:08,390 --> 01:09:05,400
access some of this stuff when a person

1594
01:09:11,269 --> 01:09:08,400
is under strain and facing difficulty

1595
01:09:13,849 --> 01:09:11,279
and the whole kind of post-magic thesis

1596
01:09:15,530 --> 01:09:13,859
is explored in that book as well writing

1597
01:09:18,289 --> 01:09:15,540
a new book which is up for pre-order

1598
01:09:20,630 --> 01:09:18,299
called modern occultism massive work of

1599
01:09:23,930 --> 01:09:20,640
history very exciting to me

1600
01:09:25,610 --> 01:09:23,940
a lot of caffeine went into that one and

1601
01:09:29,630 --> 01:09:25,620
um I'm working on the last three

1602
01:09:32,990 --> 01:09:29,640
chapters right now actually wow wow busy

1603
01:09:35,269 --> 01:09:33,000
as ever but well I mean man thanks for

1604
01:09:37,370 --> 01:09:35,279
taking the time to to do this with me

1605
01:09:40,130 --> 01:09:37,380
this was very smooth I feel like a real

1606
01:09:42,590 --> 01:09:40,140
professional almost and you make a good

1607
01:09:43,910 --> 01:09:42,600
answer my man and I dug it thank you now

1608
01:09:45,410 --> 01:09:43,920
I really dug it and I I really

1609
01:09:47,269 --> 01:09:45,420
appreciate the space you create for

1610
01:09:49,430 --> 01:09:47,279
talking about these issues in such a

1611
01:09:51,410 --> 01:09:49,440
free way ah too kind well it's been a

1612
01:09:53,150 --> 01:09:51,420
pleasure we got a lot of good stuff to

1613
01:09:55,550 --> 01:09:53,160
chew on thanks for your time and take

1614
01:09:56,930 --> 01:09:55,560
care pleasure thank you man

1615
01:10:00,050 --> 01:09:56,940
foreign

1616
01:10:04,910 --> 01:10:00,060
hell yes people after many years and

1617
01:10:09,830 --> 01:10:07,669
and also a big thanks to Flop House Jr

1618
01:10:12,770 --> 01:10:09,840
who turned 60 earlier this month and

1619
01:10:15,830 --> 01:10:12,780
wanted to hear his version of the THC

1620
01:10:17,390 --> 01:10:15,840
theme song used for it and I was happy

1621
01:10:20,870 --> 01:10:17,400
to do that because it's a good one

1622
01:10:23,630 --> 01:10:20,880
sounds almost like a Pink Floyd inspired

1623
01:10:26,209 --> 01:10:23,640
version but I like it thanks man and

1624
01:10:29,209 --> 01:10:26,219
happy birthday and good stuff in this

1625
01:10:31,130 --> 01:10:29,219
one today lots to like Mitch is clearly

1626
01:10:33,530 --> 01:10:31,140
a pretty thoughtful guy and when he's in

1627
01:10:36,169 --> 01:10:33,540
his wheelhouse I think he's a lot of fun

1628
01:10:38,750 --> 01:10:36,179
to listen to he's a great writer who

1629
01:10:41,570 --> 01:10:38,760
also has a real talent for naming and

1630
01:10:42,410 --> 01:10:41,580
branding his work I appreciate that kind

1631
01:10:45,229 --> 01:10:42,420
of thing

1632
01:10:47,510 --> 01:10:45,239
occult America was a great read and the

1633
01:10:49,490 --> 01:10:47,520
Miracle Club is a fun idea

1634
01:10:51,050 --> 01:10:49,500
since it came out and I read it I

1635
01:10:53,689 --> 01:10:51,060
definitely think about it when I look at

1636
01:10:55,430 --> 01:10:53,699
the clock and it happens to be that time

1637
01:10:57,709 --> 01:10:55,440
and it feels like a little secret

1638
01:10:59,750 --> 01:10:57,719
society of people trying to nudge the

1639
01:11:00,770 --> 01:10:59,760
field in the right direction at the same

1640
01:11:02,689 --> 01:11:00,780
time

1641
01:11:04,850 --> 01:11:02,699
and I hope some of you take up the

1642
01:11:06,830 --> 01:11:04,860
practice if you think about it

1643
01:11:08,930 --> 01:11:06,840
obviously it seems like people would

1644
01:11:11,149 --> 01:11:08,940
also expect me to say something about

1645
01:11:13,550 --> 01:11:11,159
our little disagreement or just the

1646
01:11:15,950 --> 01:11:13,560
disparaging words towards conspiracy

1647
01:11:18,050 --> 01:11:15,960
theorists that I took some issue with

1648
01:11:19,550 --> 01:11:18,060
he has some other quotes too like this

1649
01:11:22,490 --> 01:11:19,560
one that I took down

1650
01:11:24,470 --> 01:11:22,500
he says eventually almost all conspiracy

1651
01:11:26,030 --> 01:11:24,480
theories as they are practiced in the

1652
01:11:28,910 --> 01:11:26,040
21st century

1653
01:11:32,330 --> 01:11:28,920
lead to an exaltation of self and a

1654
01:11:34,850 --> 01:11:32,340
suspicion of others that is the primary

1655
01:11:37,189 --> 01:11:34,860
problem I have with the conspiracist

1656
01:11:38,390 --> 01:11:37,199
Outlook when it is practiced as a kind

1657
01:11:40,370 --> 01:11:38,400
of Dogma

1658
01:11:43,970 --> 01:11:40,380
and again I would amend that with

1659
01:11:46,669 --> 01:11:43,980
suspicion of power actually not other

1660
01:11:48,770 --> 01:11:46,679
in fact to me the conspiracy minded see

1661
01:11:51,709 --> 01:11:48,780
a bit more clearly just how much of the

1662
01:11:53,990 --> 01:11:51,719
world is intentionally used to divide Us

1663
01:11:58,490 --> 01:11:54,000
in any way possible

1664
01:12:00,590 --> 01:11:58,500
race class religion age sex etc etc

1665
01:12:04,070 --> 01:12:00,600
and the conspiracy-minded person would

1666
01:12:08,030 --> 01:12:04,080
see a far more united Humanity than a

1667
01:12:10,430 --> 01:12:08,040
lot of other say World Views I guess

1668
01:12:12,590 --> 01:12:10,440
and the conspiracy minded would see that

1669
01:12:14,630 --> 01:12:12,600
the poor and struggling are actually

1670
01:12:16,729 --> 01:12:14,640
swimming up a near impossible stream

1671
01:12:18,950 --> 01:12:16,739
sometimes and thus

1672
01:12:20,330 --> 01:12:18,960
would have empathy for those who can't

1673
01:12:22,370 --> 01:12:20,340
make it

1674
01:12:24,229 --> 01:12:22,380
so because I feel like we acknowledge

1675
01:12:26,630 --> 01:12:24,239
how hard and dishonest the big machine

1676
01:12:27,590 --> 01:12:26,640
is and how many traps a person can fall

1677
01:12:30,229 --> 01:12:27,600
into

1678
01:12:32,390 --> 01:12:30,239
it actually seems like a humbling world

1679
01:12:34,310 --> 01:12:32,400
view in a lot of ways

1680
01:12:36,470 --> 01:12:34,320
but I wouldn't say that that statement

1681
01:12:39,649 --> 01:12:36,480
for Mitch is wrong it certainly has some

1682
01:12:41,990 --> 01:12:39,659
truth to it an exalted sense of self can

1683
01:12:44,390 --> 01:12:42,000
be a part of it if you don't check it

1684
01:12:46,550 --> 01:12:44,400
magic is the same way though people warn

1685
01:12:48,470 --> 01:12:46,560
against doing a few successful rituals

1686
01:12:50,689 --> 01:12:48,480
and then seeing yourself as the center

1687
01:12:52,010 --> 01:12:50,699
of the universe and developing a God

1688
01:12:54,950 --> 01:12:52,020
complex

1689
01:12:57,530 --> 01:12:54,960
so to me that's a human ego issue that

1690
01:13:00,890 --> 01:12:57,540
people of all types deal with not just a

1691
01:13:03,590 --> 01:13:00,900
conspiracy worldview issue per se

1692
01:13:06,110 --> 01:13:03,600
and really if you explore the conspira

1693
01:13:07,430 --> 01:13:06,120
sphere long enough you arrive at the

1694
01:13:09,530 --> 01:13:07,440
bottom of the rabbit hole and

1695
01:13:12,050 --> 01:13:09,540
essentially learn that love is the

1696
01:13:14,930 --> 01:13:12,060
answer that love is our best tool and

1697
01:13:18,110 --> 01:13:14,940
that putting more novelty creativity art

1698
01:13:20,390 --> 01:13:18,120
love positivity in the world is how we

1699
01:13:22,729 --> 01:13:20,400
move the needle and win the game

1700
01:13:24,970 --> 01:13:22,739
as much [\h__\h] as people talk on them I've

1701
01:13:29,030 --> 01:13:24,980
heard both David Ike and Alex Jones

1702
01:13:31,189 --> 01:13:29,040
pontificate on those themes many times

1703
01:13:32,149 --> 01:13:31,199
but like most countercultures throughout

1704
01:13:34,669 --> 01:13:32,159
time

1705
01:13:36,110 --> 01:13:34,679
right now there's a big smear campaign

1706
01:13:38,750 --> 01:13:36,120
against us

1707
01:13:41,630 --> 01:13:38,760
trying to link us to domestic terrorists

1708
01:13:43,850 --> 01:13:41,640
and trying to paint us as unhinged

1709
01:13:45,649 --> 01:13:43,860
so when I say we try to elevate that

1710
01:13:47,450 --> 01:13:45,659
subculture around here

1711
01:13:49,850 --> 01:13:47,460
I do mean it though I guess you could

1712
01:13:52,550 --> 01:13:49,860
hold up a few shows from the past and

1713
01:13:53,870 --> 01:13:52,560
say really how does this show Elevate

1714
01:13:57,050 --> 01:13:53,880
anything

1715
01:13:59,630 --> 01:13:57,060
sure but it's not about how wild or

1716
01:14:02,030 --> 01:13:59,640
taboo some of the ideas and themes might

1717
01:14:03,770 --> 01:14:02,040
be it's how we approach them and the

1718
01:14:06,110 --> 01:14:03,780
general tone of it all

1719
01:14:08,930 --> 01:14:06,120
I guess I can only say what I try to do

1720
01:14:11,330 --> 01:14:08,940
and others can judge how well it's done

1721
01:14:13,910 --> 01:14:11,340
but I just think ultimately Mitch might

1722
01:14:15,050 --> 01:14:13,920
have absorbed a little bit of that smear

1723
01:14:17,149 --> 01:14:15,060
campaign

1724
01:14:20,689 --> 01:14:17,159
but he also was troubled by an event

1725
01:14:22,610 --> 01:14:20,699
that helped to cement those feelings too

1726
01:14:25,669 --> 01:14:22,620
and that is unfortunate but you can't

1727
01:14:28,490 --> 01:14:25,679
control everyone or deny that a troubled

1728
01:14:30,530 --> 01:14:28,500
person could go down a violent path nor

1729
01:14:33,010 --> 01:14:30,540
can you judge a wider group of people

1730
01:14:35,870 --> 01:14:33,020
because of the actions of a few

1731
01:14:38,030 --> 01:14:35,880
conspiracy material is not for the faint

1732
01:14:39,470 --> 01:14:38,040
of heart it's pretty Raw it's not for

1733
01:14:41,810 --> 01:14:39,480
the weak mind

1734
01:14:44,450 --> 01:14:41,820
much like magic it does need to be

1735
01:14:47,110 --> 01:14:44,460
approached with a certain stability and

1736
01:14:49,370 --> 01:14:47,120
kind of a thick skin in a lot of ways

1737
01:14:51,709 --> 01:14:49,380
conspiracy thinking brought me to

1738
01:14:54,169 --> 01:14:51,719
understand that I shouldn't rely on the

1739
01:14:56,330 --> 01:14:54,179
system that the water piped into my

1740
01:14:58,250 --> 01:14:56,340
house is not fit to drink that there are

1741
01:14:59,689 --> 01:14:58,260
many foods in the grocery store that are

1742
01:15:01,850 --> 01:14:59,699
not fit to eat

1743
01:15:05,090 --> 01:15:01,860
psychedelics are banned because they get

1744
01:15:06,890 --> 01:15:05,100
us out of Baseline Consciousness and I

1745
01:15:09,169 --> 01:15:06,900
am best served by taking personal

1746
01:15:10,010 --> 01:15:09,179
responsibility for my own station in

1747
01:15:12,709 --> 01:15:10,020
life

1748
01:15:15,130 --> 01:15:12,719
I find all these things to be useful and

1749
01:15:17,990 --> 01:15:15,140
positive and I find the general

1750
01:15:19,610 --> 01:15:18,000
conspiracy worldview adoption to be a

1751
01:15:22,910 --> 01:15:19,620
Rite of Passage

1752
01:15:25,490 --> 01:15:22,920
a sort of metamorphosis of scene through

1753
01:15:26,689 --> 01:15:25,500
a carefully crafted bubble of lies and

1754
01:15:28,910 --> 01:15:26,699
illusion

1755
01:15:31,490 --> 01:15:28,920
very Gnostic actually

1756
01:15:34,790 --> 01:15:31,500
if I took the advice of the system and

1757
01:15:37,490 --> 01:15:34,800
the authority figures of my past that

1758
01:15:40,250 --> 01:15:37,500
were supposedly just looking out for me

1759
01:15:43,310 --> 01:15:40,260
I'd probably be dead or at least deeply

1760
01:15:45,410 --> 01:15:43,320
unhappy in a safe retail job with a

1761
01:15:46,490 --> 01:15:45,420
mountain of student loan debt and no way

1762
01:15:50,689 --> 01:15:46,500
out

1763
01:15:53,450 --> 01:15:50,699
and he said yeah maybe it was harsh

1764
01:15:56,209 --> 01:15:53,460
maybe I was reactionary based on a

1765
01:15:58,130 --> 01:15:56,219
specific event maybe I mischaracterized

1766
01:16:00,290 --> 01:15:58,140
a little and I'll think on it

1767
01:16:01,310 --> 01:16:00,300
and that's amazing that's all anyone can

1768
01:16:03,410 --> 01:16:01,320
ask

1769
01:16:06,169 --> 01:16:03,420
and today with everyone digging their

1770
01:16:08,149 --> 01:16:06,179
heels in to their particular camps it

1771
01:16:10,370 --> 01:16:08,159
was really a refreshing thing to hear

1772
01:16:13,130 --> 01:16:10,380
but he gave me a lot to think about

1773
01:16:15,770 --> 01:16:13,140
today too his essays in uncertain places

1774
01:16:18,229 --> 01:16:15,780
contain a ton of aha moments and

1775
01:16:21,110 --> 01:16:18,239
interesting things to reflect on and

1776
01:16:24,050 --> 01:16:21,120
honestly I know there are figures in the

1777
01:16:26,510 --> 01:16:24,060
magic Community peers of mitches who

1778
01:16:29,689 --> 01:16:26,520
would have advised him to not talk to me

1779
01:16:32,270 --> 01:16:29,699
because of my conspiracy card carrying

1780
01:16:34,370 --> 01:16:32,280
in fact I expect a couple of them to

1781
01:16:36,410 --> 01:16:34,380
mouth off as soon as this gets posted

1782
01:16:37,790 --> 01:16:36,420
because they're so simple-minded and

1783
01:16:39,649 --> 01:16:37,800
predictable

1784
01:16:41,810 --> 01:16:39,659
so that's just another reason why I got

1785
01:16:43,550 --> 01:16:41,820
to give Mitch props for just rolling

1786
01:16:44,930 --> 01:16:43,560
with it and being willing to have the

1787
01:16:47,030 --> 01:16:44,940
conversation

1788
01:16:48,950 --> 01:16:47,040
so I got a lot of respect for Mitch and

1789
01:16:50,570 --> 01:16:48,960
I'm a fan and I consider this one of the

1790
01:16:53,090 --> 01:16:50,580
good ones that I'll probably revisit

1791
01:16:54,770 --> 01:16:53,100
from time to time and I certainly hope

1792
01:16:56,990 --> 01:16:54,780
we can do it again because there's no

1793
01:16:58,970 --> 01:16:57,000
doubt he'll be churning out many more

1794
01:17:00,470 --> 01:16:58,980
good books that we'll probably enjoy

1795
01:17:02,750 --> 01:17:00,480
unpacking

1796
01:17:04,970 --> 01:17:02,760
of course as always there's a second

1797
01:17:07,310 --> 01:17:04,980
hour for Plus members and today's we

1798
01:17:09,490 --> 01:17:07,320
talked about Mitch's analysis of the

1799
01:17:12,470 --> 01:17:09,500
third wave occult Revival

1800
01:17:15,649 --> 01:17:12,480
elaborating on occult history in America

1801
01:17:17,810 --> 01:17:15,659
and that first and second wave manly P

1802
01:17:20,990 --> 01:17:17,820
hall and the secret teachings of all

1803
01:17:23,990 --> 01:17:21,000
ages mystical America and American Myth

1804
01:17:26,810 --> 01:17:24,000
making Edgar Casey and how to read the

1805
01:17:28,790 --> 01:17:26,820
akashic record the usefulness of

1806
01:17:31,689 --> 01:17:28,800
building a personal God Squad

1807
01:17:34,850 --> 01:17:31,699
cornerstones of a good magical practice

1808
01:17:37,310 --> 01:17:34,860
Mitch's first-hand energetic experiences

1809
01:17:39,050 --> 01:17:37,320
in Egyptian Subterranean Chambers

1810
01:17:41,630 --> 01:17:39,060
probably my favorite part of the whole

1811
01:17:44,270 --> 01:17:41,640
episode and we got into some of the

1812
01:17:47,330 --> 01:17:44,280
ideas behind Mitch's other works

1813
01:17:49,669 --> 01:17:47,340
sign up at the highersidechats.com and

1814
01:17:52,490 --> 01:17:49,679
start it all off with a free 7-Day trial

1815
01:17:54,649 --> 01:17:52,500
with full access to the archive and all

1816
01:17:57,169 --> 01:17:54,659
the bonuses and keep anything you

1817
01:17:58,790 --> 01:17:57,179
download even after you cancel hard to

1818
01:18:01,910 --> 01:17:58,800
beat that

1819
01:18:02,930 --> 01:18:01,920
in higher side news I'm just staying the

1820
01:18:05,470 --> 01:18:02,940
course

1821
01:18:08,510 --> 01:18:05,480
I have an idea to launch a little

1822
01:18:11,330 --> 01:18:08,520
memorabilia out into the world that I

1823
01:18:13,669 --> 01:18:11,340
think THC fans would be interested in

1824
01:18:16,550 --> 01:18:13,679
trying to get myself a little relocation

1825
01:18:18,709 --> 01:18:16,560
bonus but I'll come up with some sort of

1826
01:18:19,490 --> 01:18:18,719
pre-roll notice about that when it's

1827
01:18:21,649 --> 01:18:19,500
ready

1828
01:18:23,030 --> 01:18:21,659
until then I guess we should look at the

1829
01:18:26,209 --> 01:18:23,040
Meetup calendar

1830
01:18:28,970 --> 01:18:26,219
a free and open place for us outside the

1831
01:18:32,149 --> 01:18:28,980
box THC fans to find each other

1832
01:18:34,010 --> 01:18:32,159
and make that all important sanctuary in

1833
01:18:36,830 --> 01:18:34,020
such troubled times

1834
01:18:39,950 --> 01:18:36,840
some of the upcoming events would be

1835
01:18:43,729 --> 01:18:39,960
January 22nd the Meetup at smoke and

1836
01:18:47,689 --> 01:18:43,739
Joe's Barbecue in Guatemala also January

1837
01:18:49,189 --> 01:18:47,699
22nd the Eastern Iowa Meetup at Park

1838
01:18:53,209 --> 01:18:49,199
Farm Winery

1839
01:18:56,990 --> 01:18:53,219
January 26th a meet-up at Slab City here

1840
01:18:59,470 --> 01:18:57,000
in California and January 28th the third

1841
01:19:02,930 --> 01:18:59,480
Asheville North Carolina

1842
01:19:04,250 --> 01:19:02,940
THC Meetup this one at the curses cream

1843
01:19:06,669 --> 01:19:04,260
Brewery

1844
01:19:10,550 --> 01:19:06,679
then kicking off February there's the

1845
01:19:14,750 --> 01:19:10,560
conspiracy theorizers on February 4th in

1846
01:19:16,790 --> 01:19:14,760
High Springs Florida and the big one the

1847
01:19:19,910 --> 01:19:16,800
higher side rooned soup Meetup in

1848
01:19:23,750 --> 01:19:19,920
Wellington New Zealand at a place called

1849
01:19:26,090 --> 01:19:23,760
foxglove on February 11th a great event

1850
01:19:28,189 --> 01:19:26,100
to celebrate that overlap between the

1851
01:19:30,050 --> 01:19:28,199
magic curious and the conspiracy-minded

1852
01:19:32,209 --> 01:19:30,060
and a good time to drink a little drink

1853
01:19:34,790 --> 01:19:32,219
with the man himself the great Gordon

1854
01:19:36,470 --> 01:19:34,800
white I think I'm going to at least zoom

1855
01:19:38,209 --> 01:19:36,480
in for a few minutes because I'll be at

1856
01:19:39,709 --> 01:19:38,219
Mount Shasta with the gramerica guys

1857
01:19:41,330 --> 01:19:39,719
during that time

1858
01:19:42,950 --> 01:19:41,340
so you can come have a digital drink

1859
01:19:45,229 --> 01:19:42,960
with me too

1860
01:19:48,410 --> 01:19:45,239
let's see how strong the tribe is in New

1861
01:19:50,450 --> 01:19:48,420
Zealand because I really don't know

1862
01:19:52,790 --> 01:19:50,460
but that's what we've got nothing after

1863
01:19:54,470 --> 01:19:52,800
February 11th so if you're curious how

1864
01:19:56,450 --> 01:19:54,480
strong the tribe is in your neck of the

1865
01:19:58,130 --> 01:19:56,460
woods hop onto the calendar make an

1866
01:19:58,850 --> 01:19:58,140
event and I'll plug it and then you'll

1867
01:20:01,010 --> 01:19:58,860
know

1868
01:20:03,530 --> 01:20:01,020
but thanks for listening Plus members

1869
01:20:05,270 --> 01:20:03,540
big old cheers to you guys and to Mitch

1870
01:20:07,370 --> 01:20:05,280
let them know if you enjoyed this I'll

1871
01:20:10,070 --> 01:20:07,380
catch you next time I've done my part

1872
01:20:12,470 --> 01:20:10,080
your move Miracle Club Miracle makers

1873
01:20:14,810 --> 01:20:12,480
Consciousness curious Psychonauts and

1874
01:20:16,010 --> 01:20:14,820
movers and shakers of the third occult

1875
01:20:21,050 --> 01:20:16,020
Revival

1876
01:20:22,550 --> 01:20:21,060
your [\h__\h] mood this is important hear

1877
01:20:27,050 --> 01:20:22,560
what I said

1878
01:20:32,030 --> 01:20:27,060
I'm trying to tell you it's not paranoia

1879
01:20:35,810 --> 01:20:32,040
not in my head it's just the hard truth

1880
01:20:38,450 --> 01:20:35,820
knocked on your door while I still can

1881
01:20:41,270 --> 01:20:38,460
to ask you a question

1882
01:20:43,790 --> 01:20:41,280
cause I know your head is still in the

1883
01:20:48,709 --> 01:20:46,010
don't be shaped to your Slaughter for

1884
01:20:51,050 --> 01:20:48,719
the rest of your life go press go press

1885
01:20:53,090 --> 01:20:51,060
but you're getting woke you say you

1886
01:20:56,689 --> 01:20:53,100
don't want to be stressed until the day

1887
01:21:00,050 --> 01:20:56,699
you die to flip my friend did you get

1888
01:21:03,470 --> 01:21:00,060
the memo can't you see that we're so

1889
01:21:04,850 --> 01:21:03,480
screwed don't you know where our Kung

1890
01:21:08,149 --> 01:21:04,860
fued

1891
01:21:11,660 --> 01:21:08,159
can't you just admit we're screwed

1892
01:21:13,390 --> 01:21:11,670
I'm gonna tell you this anyways

1893
01:21:17,090 --> 01:21:13,400
[Music]

1894
01:21:19,729 --> 01:21:17,100
very dark world no matter what you say

1895
01:21:29,170 --> 01:21:19,739
scary dark world don't think we'll be

1896
01:21:33,950 --> 01:21:30,890
[Music]

1897
01:21:38,270 --> 01:21:33,960
you sit and wish but we don't have a

1898
01:21:42,169 --> 01:21:38,280
choice it seems we're stuck here but you

1899
01:21:44,330 --> 01:21:42,179
can't find noses drown out the noise now

1900
01:21:47,450 --> 01:21:44,340
use that altar

1901
01:21:52,130 --> 01:21:47,460
end up your magic game

1902
01:22:00,430 --> 01:21:52,140
listen to PhD you know you go with the

1903
01:22:05,390 --> 01:22:03,290
but you're getting woke you say you

1904
01:22:09,830 --> 01:22:05,400
don't want to be stressed until the day

1905
01:22:13,440 --> 01:22:11,410
[Music]

1906
01:22:16,689 --> 01:22:13,450
so screwed

1907
01:22:21,670 --> 01:22:16,699
[Music]

1908
01:22:30,610 --> 01:22:21,680
can't you just admit we're screwed

1909
01:22:38,660 --> 01:22:32,740
don't think we'll be okay

1910
01:22:38,670 --> 01:22:48,229
[Music]

1911
01:22:59,870 --> 01:22:50,040
laughs

1912
01:23:11,750 --> 01:22:59,880
[Music]

1913
01:23:18,110 --> 01:23:14,750
the tough love for my friend did you get

1914
01:23:20,830 --> 01:23:18,120
the memo can't you say that we're so

1915
01:23:26,270 --> 01:23:20,840
screwed don't you know

1916
01:23:26,280 --> 01:23:36,250
I'm gonna tell you this anyway

1917
01:23:46,550 --> 01:23:39,229
don't think we'll be okay